fordson

[JohnM]

I have located three different versions of 1:16 Fordson Model F tractors, on free downloads.

But are Paper-craft Square links permissible nowadays?

[Vermin_King]

No, unless they link to the actual download, not his saved download

[airdave]

Originally Posted by darter

But a person who gives away for free, a copy of a kit that is no longer available is in actual fact doing our hobby a service.

Whether you sell it or give it away, has no bearing on whether you pirated someone else's property.

You are wrong.
Its still piracy.

I used to sell a P51 Mustang model that I don't sell anymore.
In fact, I stopped selling it because I have a new and improved version that I want people to buy.
Does that mean you can make copies of the one I don't sell any more and distribute them? (free or not)

No, it doesn't.
Not only would you be pirating my intellectual property
you would be damaging my future sales of my (new and improved) models.

Just because a manufacturer has discontinued the production of something
doesn't mean he gives up his rights to that thing.
Previous products are protected by those rights from plagiurism and piracy,
at least for a certain period of time as stipulated by relevant law.

I'd like you to consider 'limited editions".
These have a finite production run.
Once the production run is finished, the product is technically discontinued at that time.
But those produced items are still protected from copying and piracy.

I don't care whether you give it away or sell it, its not yours to do with as you please!

Unless, the applicable laws state that there is a predetermined period of time where a certain discontinued item is considered to now be in public domain.

[darter]

Does the designer and manufacturer of a model require the permission of the designer and manufacturer and or copyright holder of the original?

One only has to read the fine print on a plastic model kit box to assume this to be correct.

So, anyone producing a model based on someone else's real or intellectual
property without their express permission should be guilty of piracy.

Now let me see if I got this right.
If I produce and sell a model of the new Boeing 777X, I'm a publisher.
If someone buys my new model and gives away a copy, hes a pirate.
Double standards??

[TramFan]

Thanks to all for the links for the Fordson, finally got a copy
Owen

[airdave]

Originally Posted by darter

Does the designer and manufacturer of a model require the permission of the designer and manufacturer and or copyright holder of the original?

One only has to read the fine print on a plastic model kit box to assume this to be correct.

So, anyone producing a model based on someone else's real or intellectual
property without their express permission should be guilty of piracy.

Now let me see if I got this right.
If I produce and sell a model of the new Boeing 777X, I'm a publisher.
If someone buys my new model and gives away a copy, hes a pirate.
Double standards??

So, heres how I read what you just said:
you are jealous of someone else producing and distributing a model
and that you justify copying it and redistributing it yourself?

Re, your last comments:
If you produce a model of a Boeing 777X, you are a designer.
An artist or Author.
If you publish the model in book/kit form...then you are a publisher.

If you advertise the model as a "Boeing" model...
use the Boeing name and logo in your promotion...
incorporate trademarked Boeing logos and artwork into the model,
into the kit,
and into any promotion or advertising for the kit...
then you may need to get proper permissions from the owners of the copyrights (of the Boeing properties).

But what has this got to do with you copying/sharing an out of date model without permission of the original author or publisher?
Nothing.
The issue was not about Boeing.

The issue was whether you have the legal right to take someone else's works
and copy and redistribute just because they are "out-of-print".
Why are you now twisting the topic?

[darter]

Why would you call me jealous?
How can I be jealous of someone who does something I have no interest in doing myself?
That is making things personal and that is Not what a forum is about.

I purchase nearly all my models. They mainly come from Fentens, Modelik, Orlik, Russian Traditions and just a few days ago from Andrey E. Zarkov.
The free ones I download come from the likes of Papermau.
Geez, bought I even got a Dutch one.
So you see I do support the designers.
And because I do, I would NEVER make a copy available to a third party.

However there comes a time when I want to build a model that is not available to purchase anywhere.
I search the net and I can only find it as a free download.
If I know the model is for sale somewhere I assume it is a pirate and don't download it.
If I can't find it anywhere else and it does not have pirate copy written across it then I have no way of knowing it's providence but it is there and I know I can download it.
So I do.
No one profited because I didn't pay any money.
No one lost because I can't find anyone wanting to sell me this model.
I won because I got a great model.
The decision to download is mine and mine alone based upon what I believe to be right.
It is not up to a forum member to tell others what they can and can't do.
Looking through this forum I find many many models that I know were free downloads, authorized copies or not? I don't know. How can you tell?
But I do know their builders did a fantastic job and enjoyed the build.

[airdave]

Originally Posted by darter

It is not up to a forum member to tell others what they can and can't do.

If you are doing something wrong, within the context of what this forum is about, you will be told.
Either by me or someone else who cares.

I didn't call you jealous...I said "heres what I read" from what you said.
You brought up the idea of a model designer using "pirated" material in their model
as if its some sort of justification for you downloading, copying or sharing a (pirated) model.
That reads like jealously, to me. Or maybe its envy?
Just a personal observation, thats whay I said "it reads that way to me".

.......
And once again...trying to get back on topic....

You said:

If a model is no longer available from it's original supplier then it would be reasonable to assume that they are no longer
interested in making money from it.
You don't know this...they may have just decided to update, or replace the design.
They may not want the design distributed any more.
It is not reasonable to assume it has anything to do with money.

So in that case does it matter where a modeler sources his material?
I think not.
I think you are wrong.
It still matters.

If I buy a kit, then scan or copy it as we all do, then I give a copy to my Grandson to build, am I a pirate or or simply a kind Grandad?
If I also give a copy to an old friend who can't afford to buy kits, am I a pirate or a good friend?
A pirate...plain and simple.
Maybe we can call you Robin Hood? You can call me the Sheriff. LOL
...still a pirate.

A person who copies a commercially available kit and then sells those copies is a pirate.
Finally, something we agree on.

But a person who gives away for free, a copy of a kit that is no longer available is in actual fact doing our hobby a service.
Nope.
Justifying ones actions in that way is wrong. Still a pirate.

[ashevilleangler]

So how bout some pics of a real Fordson? But don't try to sell copies of it,..... it's patented!

Curt

[airdave]

It almost looks futuristic with its uncomplicated surfaces.
Everything contained, and smooth...almost streamlined.
With a few changes, I bet I could fool you into believing it was a future model,
not a vintage one.

Are there no kits of this?
hmmmm