meanwhile on kartonowki.pl

[Lex]

Yeah I wasn't trying to be antagonistic. I didn't realise Dave was having an issue with the thread title in particular. My view was the precise opposite of Dave's, whereas he see it as a bar set too high, I see it as an antidote to a bar set too low. As much as people will say 'I'll never be that good', I also see many that are complacent about 'what I do is as far as paper can go' (and my answer to that is no, not even close, try harder). I guess, we just happened to be looking at different ends of the rainbow.

[a380]

over the past few years i have posted links to models from the site kartonowki.pl that caught my eyes. mainly because, also over the years, i have noticed a tone expressed by some, on this site - that of 'paper purity'. I reject the concept entirely and it gets my goat that it is even an issue. making and admiring scale models is my hobby. The material used is irrelevant to the end result. you may have seen the only two completed models i have posted here! i will gleefully admit i used material other than paper that seemed more suitable for a given part. i paint my models because i feel that it makes them look more 'realistic' than any 'printed' models ever can. that is my opinion and i don't push it on anyone who may think otherwise. i will however, push back strongly when members of the 'paper police' tries to tell people what's what. anyone here seriously consider enrico or milan paulus or romanmodel's incredible creations not paper models? does that thought even enter your head when you gaze upon their handiwork? if it does, I submit you have your priorities misaligned.

regarding this particular model. I think it's a stunning achievement on the part of the model maker. the fact that it was featured as 'model of the week' on a site that is arguably one the best at representing the craft, speaks for itself. also, i find it baffling that anyone would be intimidated by such craftsmanship. When i see a model like this i marvel at the quality, admire the artist, and aspire to achieve the same level of perfection. the last thought in my mind is a desire to give up. perhaps I think differently. if everyone who came after shakespeare, michelangelo or beethoven just threw in the towel after stumbling on their works, 'creativity' would have ended a long time ago, the expression diy wouldn't exist. As a teacher of filmmaking I would be out of work if my students gave up after a screening of 'citizen kane'!

[Kevin WS]

I am afraid I support Dave here. And this has nothing do with "paper police"!

I really do not care how a model is made up - its the modellers creation and if he wants to use thread, bits of plastic, wire etc that is up to him.

That brings us to the description of the model.

If its made of plastic its a plastic model (even with paper additions - which I often used when I made plastic models).

If its made of paper its a paper model, even with a few "non-paper" additions. Paper models often use other materials routinely - thread, wire, clear perspex (canopies), etc where the part cannot be made of paper.

If its made of paper, resin filler, etch metal, plastic, and has to be painted as a result, its a multimedia model. And yes, there is such a term.

Nothing wrong with that. Whats wrong with it being a multimedia model based on a paper kit? Which is what Dave indicated.

The actual model in question is great, but I would be disappointed if after looking at the picture, I bought the actual paper model, and found that I could not assemble now a similar model without buying additional etched metal, filler resin, paint etc.

And I would not buy a paper kit to try and make a similar model if I knew I did not also have the requisite painting skills, filling and sanding skills, could work with photoetch etc etc.

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I actually don't get the issue here at all - the author of the model makes it clear that he used multi media parts and paint.

Dave gave his opinion (which he is entitled to) "thats its not much different than a plastic kit, having been puttied, seam filled, sanded and painted".

That doesn't degrade the actual model!

Rather look at the model and enjoy it!

[ediacz]

As a builder of this model I would like to add a few words to disscusion:
It's paper model, based on the Answer magazine.
Maybe I'll disappoint You, but under the layers of weathering and paint It's pure paper. I've only used putty to make balls on gear stick, and some other handles. the other problem is copper wire.. how You make pipes or wires? By rolling up paper? Not!
Front grill is Aber's copper mesh - but for me It was necessary to use It.
If You check my other models on kartonowki.pl You will see that I was making simple models, unpainted and unweathered. In my opinion the main goal of modelling is to evolve, expand techniques, make models more realistic without any worries: "oh, no, I've used wire insolation to imitate rubber hose.. the Paper-nazis from forum will diss me." That's no point. I would stand in place, and make the same crappy models as 20 years ago.
To sum up:
workshop gallery of my Ursus: https://www.facebook.com/pg/kartonow...4&__tn__=-UC-R

Beasuce the one who doesn't evolve... stands in place.
Over and out.

[Kevin WS]

ediacz - firstly, welcome to the Forum! I hope you stay and share some of your builds going forwards! Your comments are noted and thank you.

You may like to introduce yourself here...

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/welcome-desk/

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So in relation to the discussion above, the model is confirmed by ediacz to be a paper model - multimedia use is minor and no more that any other paper modeller would use if he was detailing an model in a similar manner!

As I said above "I actually don't get the issue here at all - the author of the model makes it clear that he used multi media parts and paint".

[maurice]

Hi ediacz

Welcome.

Please not "Over and out" but rather “Onward and Upward!" *

Many of us on this forum would be delighted if you were to post (or at least let us have a link to) your next build - of the Staliniec S60 from Orlik.

Cheers
Maurice

* “Onward and Upward! To Narnia and the North!”
C.S. Lewis, The Horse and His Boy

[a380]

first of all welcome to this forum, edicz. i hope i didn't put you in a spot by linking your model here. my purpose was to showcase a superb example of craftsmanship that we can all aspire to, or not. i am glad that you posted and made your position clear. who better to hear from but the artist themself! your mindset is exactly as mine; to evolve, to make more realistic models and damn the critics. by the way, i want to address my use of the word 'extreme'. this model is indeed an example of paper modeling taken to the extreme. just as young c. park's f4u (https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Park.htm) is an extreme example of a metal model or andrzej ziober mi 26 (https://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Ziober.htm) is an extreme example of a plastic model. i make no apologies for labeling something 'extreme' if it stands head and shoulder above what the rest of us are capable of producing. it's out of admiration, not envy nor it is a sign of despondency.

[ediacz]

A380 no problem. Thanx for sharing my model on forum.
Philosophy of airdave's perception of paper model Is like seeing the world only in black and white.
Quoting Terence Fletcher from brilliant movie Whiplash: There are no two words in the English language more harmful than "good job"
Criticism is good only if It can point You what can you improve in Your craftsmanship and push Your skills to the limit, show You better way.
If all my old models and work were judged as good job I would still make It as bad as they were.
Paper modeling Is very popular in Poland (and post soviet part of Europe), since first edition of Maly Modelarz magazine (1957 year). Polish paper modellers are one of the best in the World, alongside with Chechs and Slovaks.

[a380]

@ediacz. one reason i visit kartonowk.pl is to learn from polish modelers such as yourself. a model that i am working on on and off for over 5 years is 'based' on the pro-model 'taurus' tugboat. off course i am breaking the 'rules' by enlarging the kit to 1/72 scale, adding parts that i see in photographs; filling with putty, sanding, painting and certainly using styrene, metal, wood, fabric and a bit of blood to make the model i want. someday, when the pandemic is behind us, i want to visit poland, if for nothing else but to visit model shops that still sell paper model kits! perhaps i can time my visit for the wroclaw show! anyway best wishes, please keep posting your builds and stay safe.

[Lex]

Welcome to the forums! Discussions and opinions aside, we would love to see more of your works shared on here. Eastern Europeans have a reason to be proud in this hobby.