N&A Tift's Turret ship (Confederate Monitor)

[rebelatsea]

Hi Corey,

The turrets of HMS Royal Sovereign were handworked using handspikes and tackles, so you are not far wrong. the weight of the double gunned fore turret was 163 tons, and rotated on a coned ball race. The Eads turrets in his river monitors rotated on 32pdr balls, so yes it is eminently practical. I'm not sure that the guns in Tift of Warner ship could train within the turret as sideways movement would be very limited. I'd like to see your preliminary drawings please.

[rebelatsea]

More, Sorry I didn't spot your drawings earlier !

I think the centre stationary tube is a good idea, but would the Tifts have thought about that as it was only introduced in the Passiac class monitors when the pilot house was put atop the turret. I suspect the ship would have been steered from somewhere below decks,probbaly aft and voice pipes used to convey instructions, as that was already known technology in river boats.

[ct ertz]

The 1/250 scale waterline model is ready for a test build if I have any takers let me know!
CT

[ct ertz]

Closing in on another release, number 41.

[Zathros]

I imagine a little historical guessing has to be taken. After all, ,most of these ships were not built and it is a fun exercise of what could have been. Reminds me of the Luft '46 offerings.

[Hudsonduster]

Just starting to cut out the sneak preview of this. Corey's given us just enough of the turret innards to tempt me to kloodge up planking for the inside and leave one wall hinged to open. 1:250 is teeny to think in such things! but I'm thinking.

If the con was just for visibility and command, we're talking three systems of bells or speaking tubes to run the ship: engine room, helm, and turret tackle. Pretty tall order. We'd need little other than a grate as a floor, and all communications cables &c. through the center column.

Could the working of the turret be part of the gun crew's responsibilities? We still need to figure where the rotating tackle goes, and how--above or below deck, who does the cranking, who does the commanding. Pretty problem for sure. The kind of thing that keeps Speculative Revisionist Engineers like me up at night, but smiling.

I'll pose a question based on nothing at all (what my real-Historian friend calls "What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub?" thinking): is there precedent for capstan-and-cable drive for the turret? Crank a drum winding on a long loop of cable running around the perimeter of the rotation. No complex ring gear needed, the cable could be kept in place by a circular track or something as simple as an array of pegs.

We need a time machine.

'Duster

[ct ertz]

I would do what ever toy think would work. If it is practical-non complicated-in a N&A Tift way I would say it is as likely as not. Simplicity seems to be the name of the game with this ship design I like the rack of 32 pound cannon balls as a bearing for the heavy turret, and all that would be below the main deck. The whay the guns are set up, the turret only needed to face the intended target, the guns could be trained (slightly) side to side for accuracy. This would be a big plus if communication was bell, speaking tubes and pointing compared to the shooting on the spin methode of the Monitor and it's fixed guns.

CT

[Pem Tech]

Originally Posted by ct ertz

A few more pics.

Excellent work.....
Strangely enough, it resembles a modern stealth warship.

[ct ertz]

This Tift Ship is but one of the designs N & A Tift had on their plate. Only the CSS Mississippi got off the ground, and it was never completed, but they were on to something. John Wallis (Rebelatsea) believes that had the CSS Mississippi been completed in time for battle or had been able to be towed up river for a future completion, it would have been a successful design. After looking at the plans of what the ship would have been like once completed, I agree. All of the other Tift designs would have used the Mississippi base and would likely have been just as successful. Rather a turreted ship of this design would have proved useful or not, It would have been at least as successful in concept as any of the monitors in the Union Navy.

Anyhow, I will have some of the other Tift designs up soon, as well as the Mississippi. I hope to offer a complete Mississippi kit of three models, the one offered to the Confederate Naval board in 1861, the concept model of Tift-Pierce collaboration, and the Completed Mississippi

Anyhow, I still think a 1/72 scale of the turret-ship mid section showing the 32 pound shot ball bearings would be awesome.
CT

[rebelatsea]

Hi All, As I started this one I'll add my 4 cents worth!

The turning mechanism need be no more elaborate than men with handspikes as in HMS Royal Soveriegn - see my earlier comment, although the CSA had built and operated a wooden turret on a railroad turntable at Port Hudson, so the technology is there. Ead's 32pdr cannon balls came later in the war with his river monitors, and may be a step too far for 1862.

I think a grating floor to the top of the turret eminently sensible and most likely to allow ventilation to the guns below. There's nothing wrong with voice pipes and or bells, again technology already in use on river boats, but I suspect directions to and from the turret would be by guys shouting at each other, this was indeed how Royal Soveriegn's turrets were trained.
I use her as an example because she is the nearest (and only) contemporary wooden turretship.

Just to complicate matters, twin turreted vessels were ordered for construction at New Orleans before the Tifts came along, and a model of one was in New Orleans Museum until the later 1880s when it disappeared
a certain Alfred T Jones designed a shield ship, with a rotating hemispherical shield for which Mallory actually placed orders,
unfortunately not fulfilled.
Neither of these projects help, but do indicate the level of interest ingetting turretships for the South.

I use the term turretship for the Southern vessels as they were different in concept to the "Monitor" design ie raft on top o a submerged lower hull.