P-51D Mustangs

[elliott]

Those are some good-looking, if different, versions that you have done Dave. I had no idea that Mustangs had been inherited by the Nationalists then the Chicoms. What odd twists that history takes sometimes. Thanks for the background too.

[richkat]

Hey Dave think I found you a Mustang.......Rich

[airdave]

HA! I like it!

[kahoody]

Originally Posted by airdave

HA! I like it!

I NEED IT!

[airdave]

Mustangs?....

its been a couple of months, but the mustang is not forgotten!

I got a request (about two months ago) for a model of "Mustang Sally".
Sally is a flying Mustang, at the South African Air Force Museum (I think thats right).
If you've never experienced a P51 Mustang in action, heres a great video.
And it just happens to be "Sally"!



Anyway, I am just wrapping up the model...

but I have a question for anyone with some knowledge.
I often place the stencil Identification markings on the side of the Cockpit
if I can find all the correct info.
In this case, I am unsure whether to put the actual stencilled information on the model
since there is a weird discrepancy.

The Mustang is claimed to be, and according to all Mustang information sources,
Serial number 44-74494 which was originally delivered to the RCAF in 1950 as 9237.
Later, to civilian registry as N6313T, N6356T, and N72FT

This makes it a P-51D-30-NA

...
However, if you examine the stencilled Aircraft Identification info on the side of Mustang Sally
you'll find this:
AAF SPEC. PROJ. NO. AC-40063 5-3-43
US ARMY P51K-5NT
SERIAL NO. AAF 44-11661

Its a bit different from other markings I have seen.

FYI...44-11661 (334th FS, 4th FG, 8th AF) crashed during wheels-up belly landing from unknown cause at Fehndorf, Germany Feb 24, 1945.
MACR 12625.
The Pilot survived and became POW.
The aircraft was destroyed by gunfire from another P-51 to prevent its capture.

...
So, I can just avoid any confusion by omitting the ID info
but I wondered if anyone had any ideas about this?

[airdave]

So, no help on this one, eh?

Well, the story gets more interesting. Heres what I have come up with...

Mustang Sally is airworthy and in the collection of the South African Air Force Museum.
But this particular Mustang has had a very storied life:

This P51 is actually a D model Mustang and an ex-WW2 aircraft.
She eventually ended up in the hands of the Canadian Air Force,
right here in my province, at nearby Trenton Air Base.
I've been there many times.
(not the actual 9237 shown below, but the same time, same look)


In 1967, she was an Air racer and won the Kings Cup Air race
...the only exWW2 aircraft ever to achieve this.


In 1969-70, she was a part of the Movie Patton.


More recently, in private hands, she was redressed as Iron Ass....including wearing the serial number 44-11661.
Even the stencilled markings on her cockpit were changed to reflect this.
As I mentioned before, 44-11661 was a P51K permanently lost during WW2.
Its possible, that Iron Ass was her name...I don't have that information.



But this is where it gets confusing...
for some unknown reason, the airrcaft has been repainted and renamed Mustang Sally
not representing any known WW2 Mustang
however still retaining the incorrect serial number and stencilled identification info of 44-11661.
Why the plane wasn't reverted to 44-74494 makes no sense to me.
(In fact, it kind of disrespects the origins of this Mustang...although I am sure unintentionally)

And if that isn't all weird enough...check out the above photo (showing the Patton Mustang)
the aircraft behind her, appears to be a CL-41 Tutor!!
Hows that, for a coincidence!!
Maybe I was supposed to find this story?

....
So, this Mustang is actually 44-74494, a P51D-30-NA.

441944: Dec 17, Completion at NAA
1945: USAF various Air Material Command store depots
1950: Dec 06, RCAF 9237, 417 Sqdn, Trenton ONT
1951: Nov 01, RCAF SOC
195?: Crown Assets Disposal Corporation
1958: Dec 30, James DeFuria / Fred Ritts / Intercontinental Airways
1958: Dec 30, N6313T (ntu)
1959: Feb 27, N6356T
1960: May 10, N6356T, Aero Enterprises, Elkhart IN
1963: Jun 13, N6356T, Capital Steel, Baton Rouge La
1964: Mar 20, N6356T, Aero Enterprises, Elkhart IN
1964: Mar 20, N6356T, Benjamin Peck, NY
1968: overall red with white stripe and white underside, "100" on tail
1969: Feb 18, N6356T, Keegan Aircraft Ltd., London England, dark color with lightning bolt on side and "Keegan" logo on side behind canopy, N6356T on vertical in stripe
1969: Feb 20, N6356T, Charles Masefield, Shoreham Airport Sussex UK
1969: Jan 27, N6356T, 20th Century Fox Film Corp, Los Angeles CA
1969: in film "Patton", filmed in Spain. Flew as "643147" olive drab
1970: Mar 15, N6356T, Ed Jurist, NY, shipped back to USA '71 "41527 OC E"
1970: Mar 31, N6356T, Vintage Car Store Inc / Ed Jurist, Nyack NY
1972: Apr 27, N6356T, Vintage Aircraft Intl / Ed Jurist, Nyack NY
1974: September, Reno - Raced as #12, Gerald Martin (blue diamonds on red nose)
1975: Apr 05, N6356T, Military Aircraft Restoration Corp. / David Tallichet, Chino CA
1979: Feb 27, N6356T, Arthur (Wally) McDonnell, Mojave CA
1979: Jun 07, N6356T, Bill "Tiger" Destafani, Bakersfield CA
1981: Jan 03, N72FT, Bill Destafani, Bakersfield CA, "Mangia Pane" 474494 LH D race #72
1987: Feb 12, N72FT, Hugh Bikle / Vintage Aircraft Inc., Hollister CA, "Iron Ass" QP X 411661
2006: Jan 20, N72FT, sold, Tom Dean, San Diego CA
2010: May 05, N72FT, sold, Menno Parsons, Johannesburg, South Africa
2010: Sep 18, re-assembled and flying again

[milenio3]

That is what I call going the extra mile, Dave, for your impressive research of this aircraft.

I will send your comments to one of my fellow member at the local club, who is very knowledgable about Mustangs. I hope he can get something from his library.

[Don Boose]

I always love to see meticulous research.

Well done, Dave. I look forward to seeing more on this history mystery.

Don

[airdave]

Thanks guys.
I don't think there is anything more to reveal,
except maybe the SAAF Museum explaining why they have chosen to leave the ID as 44-11661?

If it was me, I think I would have returned the aircraft ID to its original 44-74494.
Or use its civilian ID.
(The planes deserve almost as much respect as the wartime Pilots who flew them.
And you wouldn't put the wrong Pilot info. Especially if you are a Museum.)

The only reason to have 44-11661 on there, is if it related to the Iron Ass paint scheme.
But the Iron Ass theme is gone.

I'm not trying to badmouth the SAAF Museum...just questioning why this is so.

I like the look of the plane, and am thankful the SAAF Museum is keeping it in the air!

The model is almost done.

[Mike1158]

It appears that many collection aircraft have been/are demonstrated in serial and other identifiers other than their own. The reasons are only explained as 'We wanted to represent a particular aircraft/crew scheme' which makes no sense to me at all. I think they should demonstrate the aircraft they have rather than a pretence at being something else.