Mk.5 Centurion Tank - a Big Scale Model from AirDave

[airdave]

Thorst...I like your design.
I hate hinge style and pins, but i like your design.

But it is so far from the Centurion style track, that I don't
know how to make it work. And since I am really against the
normal hinge and pin approach...

[thorst]

Lol, ok, than I failed, as I did the sketches after a quick look on your photo samples. I didn't even try to get the shape right, just wanted to illustrate the principle. I'm sure it could be adapted to the Centurion track very easily, but I see your point about using pins.
But keep in mind, the pla**** fraction spends as much money for only metal tracks as for the base kits just to get the pleasure to work with pins They must be right, huh?

Thorsten

[Tim Crowe]

Originally Posted by airdave

I laughed, fell off my chair, screamed, got back up, hit the keyboard, laughed, fell off the chair, screamed, got back up...

I am so sick of hearing "give the builder the choice"!
LOL
Listen!...the builder doesn't know what the hell he wants! okay?!
I tell him what he wants! okay?!

I was just trying to help

Would have though my experience would have got a better response

Tim

[airdave]

"the Norwegian Blue prefers kipping on its back!"
no Tim, it was only a joke.

If you remember back to when I had an incident with a certain ex-member here,
all the troubles started with a discussion about including an extra set of parts
in a kit.
Now, whenever I get the (common) response of "put both options in the
model"...I immediately am reminded of that incident and it makes me cringe
and laugh all at the same time.

As an ex Auto Mechanic, I also love the "customer is always right" motto.
In my trade the first thing you learn is the customer has no idea of what's wrong
or what they need and yet you have to pretend they do (if you want to be
considered a fair and honest shop). And sometimes you even do unnecessary
repairs just to satisfy the customer!

LOL
If I had a design that could easily be transferred into individual track links, as
well as a long strip method of assembly, then I would have no problem supplying
both options. but as I said, I don't have even one working option yet.

(If its a case of having to put the time and effort into designing two alternate methods
of Track Parts and Assembly...I don't think that will be an option however.
Since the number of Parts and Pages is already quite large.
For example, the existing design I have for the Tracks, is over 14 pages of parts!!
This is already a very large kit.)

The first "separated track link" design did not work, because the assembly of the links
was too difficult, complicated, awkward and impossible to do while joining the last
link of a full track.

Modifying that design into a strips of Track (multiple track links) offered up a new
method of joining those links sections and might work a lot better. But I
won't know anything until I do a test build.
Which will hopefully get done today.



Which is I why I put the question out there...any ideas regarding a different design or method of assembly of the Track parts.
The real question being how complicated a design will the majority tolerate?

My comments were made in jest, but without trying to be rude I have to say
that at this point my primary goal is to come up with only one method of track design.

Thorst design for "hinged" links was what I started with.
But I was trying to get away from forcing the builder to roll tiny little tubes
and use pins of some sort that were not paper.
Plus, I couldn't figure out the pin hinge idea based on the Centurion track design.
Trying to build up a "cast" molded part using paper "layers" is very tricky!

[Hathaway Veteran]

https://www.google.com/search?q=cent...g&ved=0CDIQsAQ

The above is a basic Google of the track link. The first image on left is a drawing showing pin connections and complexity. The image to the right of that shows the top of the link from a box of small cast metal links.

I think the issue is to examine (1) track link and figure out how to decompose it. I would suggest looking at a GPM 1/25 Panther (Pz Kpfw V) link, which is what was used in part for the Centurion design. GPM achieves 3D and captures a fair representation of the outside complexity of the link casting. Note the Centurion link outside pattern is complex, but in 1/16 I would expect a fair amount of detail.

I also think a repetitive method for assembly will aid in assembling links. Thorst's design has good clues. Because there is a pin under the main part of the cleat, you can have the modeler use a template pin to wrap the connector pin guides around. When finished, the modeler can use a soft plastic rod or copper wire and rapidly cut pins and join the links.

Just a suggestion.
Paul

[airdave]

I have most of those pics already...but still good stuff.

I found a copy of that GPM model just to look at.
And I'm not sure it helps me.
Their track is literally a flat, two ply paper track with printed textural detail.
You add a simple tread strip on the outside, and a pair of flat guide tabs on
the inside of each Link...but thats it.



This is not three dimensional enough for me...its not scale thick enough either.
And its definitely not complicated enough (part wise).

But I still can't see how to recreate the hollow cast design of the Centurion
track parts...in flat paper layers...for the purpose of doing a hinge pin effect.

But this is all good stuff...helpful.

As I told Thorst...first I'm going to try to test build the latest incarnation
of my track design and see how it works. I'll post the results.
And we can go from there.

[airdave]

So, work continues on the Suspension parts
and the Track design.

Heres a few pics of the latest (second) design of the Tracks
and the individual track parts.

I have tried to drop the individual Track Links by using a strip section of Track.
Some pics below let you see the test build as it progressed, but I decided to do
a Video explanation of the current status instead...enjoy...

[SJPONeill]

Looks like a happy compromise, Dave...

[Hathaway Veteran]

May I please suggest we think out of the box and may I please correct myself. I am very bad at certain names.

Try this:

Zealot Hobby Forum

It is definitely 3D. It is Halinski, not GPM as I thought. If you can't get in, I will do a screen print - which I assume I can attach???? However, you are welcome to do flat ribbon if you wish. Not my cup of tea.

[douglasmarrel]

Airdave, that's what the aftermarket boys are for. Let Draf or Fantom or Orlik or Modelik or Model Hobby offer to a companion set of tracks. Look at most of Modeliks WWI offerings, they all have a separate laser cut kit set of tracks for them, some for almost as much the cost of the kit and some of those WWI tracks were more than a little bit weird.