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Old 07-23-2013, 09:18 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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B-24 Liberator - pink or what?

I have been planning for some time to update the Liberator D kits.
And I have been doing that for a couple of weeks now.
Time to redraw the file...clean up the artwork...make some modifications.
And there is a need to update my "Lady be good" kit.

A couple of weeks back I received communication from someone who had some issues with my model.
Most specifically two things...the name plate on the right side of the cockpit and the overall colour of the plane.

I have since discovered another photo of LBG that reveals more information about the painted name on the aircraft
...and I see the need to make some changes.



The colour change however, I was not as quick to agree to.
I put a lot of thought and time into the first colour I used on LBG and didn't agree with the "more pink" request.

After some reflection, I decided to go through the process again (of picking a colour for LBG and other North African based Libs).
And I have come up with a slightly different colour this time (than my original choice).
So this raises the question of whether others might agree with me.

Since I have a bunch of colour swtches already created, I decided to add some commentary
and present everything to you in one PDF that you can view
...its a normal optimized PDF at about 700kb in size.
(so its a little too big to atatch here)

Please, take a look at the PDF...feel free to print it out if you want to see how colours print...but let me know what you think.
I'd like to be sure before I release the updated model.

B24 Pink or Sand.pdf

The question of other Liberators painted in a sand/beige/tan colour is a whole other question.
This topic refers to those aircraft deemed as "pink".
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:24 AM
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Dave,

Have you seen the B-24(D)' I believe it's called the "strawberry Bitch" at the Museum of The USAF, in Dayton, Ohio? Is she the color your looking for?

I don't know myself, just asking.

I recall it having a distinct reddish cast to it. I have some Picts that I'll see if I can find. I took them with an RGB Calibrated chart so that I could duplicate the color. That was 25 years ago, not sure where they are hiding. I'll let you know.

SFX
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:29 AM
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Here's a couple of pic of Strawberry B. One's inside the USAF museum w/ flash, and the other is an older outside pic w/ sunlight. I believe John Dell's version at FG is pretty good.
Attached Thumbnails
B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-b24usafm.jpg   B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-strawberry1.jpg  
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Old 07-23-2013, 10:42 AM
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I would be interested in seeing those photos with the RGB calibration!

I've been to the Museum twice and have many pictures of Strawberry Bitch.
Problem I have with that plane is...
1. The Museum interior lighting is dark and could be casting an odd colour onto that aircraft.
2. Flash and long exposure photography also doesn't do the colour any justice.
3. If the paint is as pink as it looks, I think it has been deliberately tinted that way to accentuate the "pink" legend.

*the two photos I took (attached) show an almost "bubblegum" pink
...and we know this colour is not accurate.

Although I love the idea of restoring these aircraft for flight and display, I rarely agree with the accuracy of
colours and markings on these planes. I prefer historical facts, data and if possible, actual photographic evidence.
In this case, such photographic evidence just doesn't exist.
I think the wreckage of LBG might be the closest thing to evidence.
And its not bubblegum pink!
Attached Thumbnails
B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-sb1.jpg   B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-sb2.jpg  
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:07 AM
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Dave, you could pink any color on your sample and someone will disagree with you. The actual color of a given aircraft would be dependent on what day in the life of the aircraft was being depicted. A week earlier or a week later and the color would have changed. My personal chioce for a well-faded aircraft would be RGB 215-166-147 or RGB 228-179-160.

The 98th Bomb Group had an application of USAAC Spec. 14109 Sand 26 (water-based) applied over the Olive Drab, retaining the Neutral Grey undersurfaces. the 35 B-24Ds of this group arrived at Ramat David, Palestine during the last two weeks of July, 1942 and went into action on the 1st of August.

Color Bulletins No.41 Amend. 1 added Sand 49 for use in North Africa and is slightly darker and more brown than Sand 26.

Specification No. 3-1 of April, 1942 replaced Sand 49 with Sand 306 (later replaced by Sand 616 in September, 1943.)

Again, unless one knows the color in which the aircraft was delivered and the locale and length of service it is merely silly to declare that one color is the "correct" one. You are already going "above and beyond' with your attempts at accuracy - so don't get too wrapped up in an unsolvable puzzle.
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:09 AM
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Hi Dave, looked at your pdf and came up with a theory. The photo on the right of one of the vertical stabilizers seems to tell the story. The "pink" that is left on the part is very close to the new color model you have created. Note that under the "pink" is olive drab and that the serial number is still noticeably yellow. While the rest of the aircraft is predominantly more sand color.

Theory. This and many other B-24's were delivered in olive drab and over sprayed with Desert "pink". In the higher altitudes the uv would burned off the red pigments very quickly. There are more than a few color photo's of what is left of her in Libya. Wright Patterson AFB museum has one of the engines and cowling from her displayed beside "Strawberry Bitch". It is very clear to see the olive paint, as very little of the "pink" is left. Olive drab itself, depending on the manufacturer and batch often faded to a light sand color in a little over 1 year. I believe the parts of the "lady" that look sandier are the remains of the olive underneath. There are a lot of parts that did not receive direct sunlight and look very "pink" indeed and are more indicative of the original "pink". I think the color you have come up with is very close and quite satisfactory for the way she would have looked pre crash. If someone wanted to do a crash diorama of the way she looked when found, that would be an entirely different and multi colored paint scheme.

Here is a review I did of a new B-17 model that illustrates my take on WWII aircraft colors: AeroScale :: Built Review: B-17G Flying Fortress by Jeff Dick

In one of my previous jobs, I painted 1/1 aircraft for a living, specializing in warbirds. Anyone trying to achieve an exact match in model paint to an FS number is building an aircraft that has not yet left the factory, at best.

I admire your work and with a new printer just delivered will be buying some of your wares.

Hope this helps
Jeff
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:13 AM
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I have to agree with YB. There are some questions that will not be answered. Now if you could go into the museum and chip off some of the new paint so you could see the old paint, you might get close to the 'correct' answer, but they would never allow that.

I wonder if the museum has any pics from before the restoration
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:19 AM
Dlazarus6660 Dlazarus6660 is offline
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Here is a couple I got from an old Air International magazine.
Attached Thumbnails
B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-b-24-liberator1-001.jpg   B-24 Liberator - pink or what?-b-24-liberator2-001.jpg  
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Old 07-23-2013, 11:34 AM
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YankeeBoy sums it up well. There is a LOT of leeway in how these colors could appear. There are many things to consider such as what company manufactured the paint, the weather conditions when it was applied, how long it was on and the environment the aircraft is in. And as YankeeBoy said, “there will always be someone who disagrees with you. I look forward to seeing how they turn out.
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Old 07-23-2013, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Dave, you could pink any color on your sample and someone will disagree with you.
haha so true!

....
yes...great...excellent stuff!!

although I do not want to discourage any further comments or opinions, I have to agree
with what has been said so far. Basically what I was trying to say and what I have been
thinking. Thanks for basically agreeing with me!

I did not know about the overpainted Olive Drab issue...excellent information!

I feel like I put a lot of thought into making a paint colour decision and then along comes another person,
with a justified intelligent opinion and asks me to make the paint colour "more pink"
(based on unsupported information and photos of Strawberry bitch! lol)

Its hard to say no

...but its just as hard to agree
and change the colour based on a lack of information.

I appreciate the input.
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