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  #11  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:15 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Normally I would design the chassis/frame first and then build the body on top of it,
but I've been tossing around various ideas of interior, the floor pan, and exactly how the body will sit on the chassis.

I've settled on my original plan of no interior.
The interior in the vehicle is extremely basic and not really worth the effort for me.
It forces me to redesign the structural components and the body assembly.
Plus it changes my plan to design a simpler 1/24 scale model.

Having an interior also means the option of opening doors and windows...
and that means building an internal structure that supports door frames, etc.
The actual vehicle literally has no "interior" other than some small jump seats.

The body is a skeleton framework of 1"x1" square tubing.
1/24 is too small to replicate the tubing cage...and the scale thickness of the body "skin" is less than 2 sheets of cardstock!




I would literally have to start at square one again to modify what I have (for the body) to accommodate the interior.
Nope, I'm sticking with window artwork and less complicated build design.

...
I tried to get away from a "former" structure and use cardstock "boxes" and forms,
but I came back to the flat interlocking former idea, which seemed like the simplest and most effective structure.
It does require laminating some stiffer card (to 1mm thickness)...but you only have to cut out 4 parts.
(Note: I have since added two more simple panels to this construction...no tabs or slots!)



I need a full floor pan so the body is complete when viewed from the underside.
On the underside I will attach the printed part which will be the visible side of the floor plan.
I can add surface details, weathering etc at a later date.

This is the part that will require some pre-assembly, to install the visible rear wheel wells and other boxed areas.







This is the second try at fitting a floor pan...after tweaking the sizes and fit of everything, this one fits into the body nicely.
I'll add a few glue tabs to help the alignment of the wheels wells and the front of the floor pan.



...

Next up, I am going to try to figure out the front fenders...
they are quite a lot more complicated that what is on the Morris Quad (short, curved, flat plates).
I wish I was modeling the Morris at this point!
The Ford fenders are much longer and larger, and have rolled edges and side panels.
I'll have to simplify them for paper model construction, but the design is going to be a challenge.

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Last edited by airdave; 02-24-2019 at 08:31 AM.
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  #12  
Old 02-24-2019, 09:54 AM
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KCStephens KCStephens is offline
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Looks great Dave.
I like the subject matter
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  #13  
Old 02-24-2019, 10:35 AM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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I enjoyed reading this and following your thought process.

The hull structure looks good.

Don
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  #14  
Old 02-24-2019, 02:06 PM
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I'm enjoying watching you progress through the design and test building.
It is more involved than I'd really thought so hats off to you.
Obviously I'm not a designer and totally ignorant of the procedures involved.
But I am curious though, with all this talk of late about copyright infringement.
I wondered if you need permission from the original manufacturer in order to copy their product in order to make a model and to use their name and logo?
And if so is it a difficult process?
Recently I read about someone who copied the Rolls Royce style grill without permission and got sued for their efforts and that is what made me curious about paper model design.
Clive.
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Old 02-24-2019, 02:24 PM
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This car was manufactured during WW2 by Ford.
Although its part of a larger production involving Chevrolet and Morris, and a slew of other vehicle types.
I assume its the same Ford company that exists today and I don't think they would argue that point.
And even if the car design itself isn't a copyrighted thing, the name "Ford" is.

In the context of a historical vehicle, I think the use of the manufacturer's name is justified and necessary to classify the vehicle.
As long as we don't get carried away with using the Ford name to promote the model, why should they care?

Rolls Royce is one company that has always been protective of its logo and name.
Too protective in fact, because they have missed out on many opportunities for free advertising and promotion.

The new FAB 1 (Lady Penelope's car) is a good example.
Both the movie version from a few years back, and the new TV series (Thunderbirds Are Go) version....
both no longer carry RR badges because of licensing issues.
If you ask me, Rolls Royce really dropped the ball by not demanding that FAB 1 still be a Rolls!

I'd say you are right...with all scale models out there...if you looked hard enough, you'd find something in every model that had a copyright connection.
The national Insignias on aircrcaft for example, are all copyrighted symbols.
US Air Force, RCAF, RAF...all market their own merchandise using their logos.

And yet, they seem to tolerate the use of insignia on scale models.
Well, USAF does.

Or maybe they can't be bothered to fight about it, since it doesn't affect them much.
Model sales are pretty small stuff, so theres not a lot of profit to fight over.
And its often good honest promotion.

Maybe thats what it comes down to?
In many cases, it can be free advertising and good promotion.

Except when there are individuals and companies paying for copyrights and licensing options,
Then, those have to be protected.
Thats why Disney is so aggressive...they sell the rights to millions of companies every year to produce Disney related merchandise.
So, they try to protect those investors.
On their behalf, they stop anyone else from using the Disney name and images no matter what.
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  #16  
Old 02-24-2019, 04:28 PM
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Cheers for the great explanation and clarification Dave.
I don't mean to hijack your post so I'll say this then hold my peace.
Your'e right about FAB1 too and I really don't think Parker should have been expected to drive anything less.
The story I read was about a company producing fibreglass fronts for VW Beetles.
They did full fronts with bonnet, guards and grill ( hoods and fenders for those who drive on the wrong side of the road ) and they did cars like the 40 Ford, 36 Chev as well as the Roller.
They did look good though.
But at the end of the day they were still a VW eh.
Bit like the Pontiac Ferrari.
Clive.
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  #17  
Old 02-24-2019, 06:18 PM
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Did a test build of fenders today...and all went well.

First, the assembled fender fits the cutout that I created in the body.
This was an unknown I had to deal with first.

I also needed to see how the fender will attach...
the odd shaped cut-out provides enough support across the fender, that edge gluing it in place will suffice.
But, I am going to add some glue tabs to the bottom edge of the engine cover just for extra security.

The assembly was straight forward...the fender itself is two layers (inner and outer).
I eyeballed the curved shape of the two parts, rolling them on a dowel, and then glued them together.
It wasn't difficult to get the right curved shape...but, I may add a template in the kit that the builder can use.



I attached the inside panel with small tabs, but i decided to add a second layer for stiffness.
Not needed for anything, just makes the fender a bit more rigid.

The outer fender lip requires a bit of patience to fit into place...just glue one end and work your way around the fender slowly.
I glued about 2-3 cm at a time, shaping the fender with each section, and working my way along.
I decided to add two very thin strips inside the edge of the fender creating a thicker gluing edge for the lip.
The strips are well hidden under the lip edge.

As you can see, I need to extend the length of the fenders a bit at the front, and I will add the radius corners.
(I wasn't completely sure of how long they should be until this test build was done.)

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  #18  
Old 02-24-2019, 08:32 PM
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Brilliant!

Don
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2019, 07:01 AM
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It's great to watch a model being designed from scratch. Straight build threads are good, but this is one step beyond that. Very entertaining and educating.
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  #20  
Old 03-02-2019, 02:27 PM
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So, heres the thing...

I'm plugging away at this project...I have finally put the body aside, to work on the chassis.

I am actually going to test build the Frame and the beginnings of the suspension parts.
Printed out a sheet today...probably build tomorrow while watching Las Vegas Nascar.
I'll report on that when I have something to show.

-----------------------
Thing is...the entire vehicle chassis frame is only about 175mm long.
And once assembled, with all cross members in place, its only about 42mm wide.

The space between the frame rails is only 30mm...
and in there sits three axles/differentials, drive shafts, engine, transmission, exhaust, etc

Even at 1/24 scale, these are going to be small assemblies with even smaller parts!
I've been trying to detail things rather than resorting to some boxed, over stylized chassis thing.
But I've already over-designed everything and may need to simplify things a lot
because I think its all going to be too small and too difficult to build (based on the beginner/intermediate standard I am trying to achieve).

I really want to build at 1/16 scale...lol...not only to match my Saladin and Centurion models
but to make some of these parts easier to build and put together.

But, I have two problems stopping me from changing back to 1/16 scale.
First...the sheer size of the model.
Granted, the Quad is a small vehicle...the final model will be shorter than my Saladin kit.
About 270mm bumper to bumper (11")...the Saladin is 14" long (355mm)

But if I decide to do the Limber (Ammunition Wagon) and 25 Pdr (Gun trailer),
which everyone is asking about,
the final model will be more than 3 feet long!!
(almost a metre! if you straight line the three parts).

No, I still have no plan to do an interior.
An interior calls for clear windows, which means you have to cut holes in parts that will end up having very thin edges, no way to glue tab them together, and too flimsy to handle.
It also brings up the question of opening doors
The real vehicle doesn't have enough structure to properly design and build it at this scale.
I don't want to end up with thick framed panels and walls that don't match the original vehicle, and extra frames around the windows and door holes..
Theres no point in creating an interior that doesn't even look like the real thing.

I do have an idea ...an optional thing...for those who want to add clear windows,
and the larger scale will help me make it work.
But thats something I'll think about later.

The issue pertaining to scale size is: will it be too big?
Sure, by itself, the Tractor is acceptable at under 1 foot long.
But if everyone (interested in this kit) wants the Limber and 25Pdr, will they be turned off by its larger dimensions?

Thats my question before I continue to dumb down the design to suit the smaller 1/24 scale.
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