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  #11  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:44 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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To clarify my earlier statements...

I have been looking for the correct terms for that long tube that runs through the Limber
and has the Hitch Hooks at either end.
I have narrowed it down to Yoke and Tongue.
I don't think either of these is correct...but the rear Hitch point (behind the Limber) is the Pintle.
I think the Yoke must be the forward Hitch eye and connection to the Horse Hitch?




Anyway, I have been reading a bit more about Limbers and Caissons...

in the Funeral procession I showed, the Caisson is actually the flatbed cart which is carrying the Casket.
This would have originally been the flat Wagon for Ammunition Boxes.
The Limber is the connecting point between the Caisson and the Horse Hitch as I said.

In fact, the Limber is more like a Multi-Hitch or Towing Adapter, for connecting anything to the Hitch Team.

With the addition of a Gun trailer, the Caisson and Limber were obviously combined into one unit.
Ammunition and Field Gun were originally towed separately by different teams.



I apologize if you don't care about these details, but this is what I find interesting about researching for a paper model project.
Learning useless facts that I will never ever use again! lol

...
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2019, 07:55 AM
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Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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No apologies needed. The historical details are perfect.
Question: What is an "electric dowel"?
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mash View Post
Question: What is an "electric dowel"?

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Old 08-24-2019, 08:31 AM
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Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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I must have been produced by the same company that made my electric gun barrel roller.
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:34 PM
missileer missileer is offline
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Dave and Michael,

I'm with you guys. I love the historical asides! And, Dave, if you ever want to turn that drawing of the limber and caisson into a model, I will definitely be a customer. I like horse drawn stuff also.

John
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missileer View Post
Dave and Michael,

I'm with you guys. I love the historical asides! And, Dave, if you ever want to turn that drawing of the limber and caisson into a model, I will definitely be a customer. I like horse drawn stuff also.

John
I don't have a big interest in that type of stuff...but I do like wooden stuff.
It might make a fun model...if I had enough reference material.
Thats the biggest problem, finding the photos and drawings and measurements.

But please, don't get me sidetracked again! lol
I have been trying to start a particular project for five years now,
and it seems like every time I think about it, I find something else to start!
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:06 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Dave - To the best of my knowledge and belief, the shaft that runs through the limber (indicated in yellow on your drawing) is called a "limber pole."

cf. James C. Halett, Edwin Olmstead, and M. Hume Parks, Field Artillery Weapons of the Civil War, Revised Edition, Newark: University of Delaware Press, 1988, pp. 218-19 and https://civilwartalk.com/threads/lim...r-away.142610/

Don
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:18 PM
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Just to add to the confusion....


Before WW1 and in the early part of the war before trench warfare started the light field guns with their limbers were considered a unit. The limbers often carried 40 or more rounds of ammunition. This sounds like a lot but a French 75mm Mle 1897 field gun could easily fire 20 rounds per minute and the other combatants' field guns weren't far short of this rate of fire. So in even a modest bombardment the caisson crews were working flat out to keep the ammunition supply going.


Couple of images: a 75mm French Mle 1897 gun with limber and 7.7cm German Feldkanone 96 n.A. The German packaged their ammunition in wicker baskets you can see these between the gun and limber.


The British term for the pole the limber is drawn with is "Draught Pole".


If anyone wants a reference to British artillery before and at the start of WW1 then I'd recommend Len Trawin's "Early British Quick Firing Artillery" - covers all the field guns with recoil absorption and is a compendium of pretty much everything about field artillery. There are scale drawings of all the guns and equipment.


Regards,


Charlie
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:16 AM
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Limber Pole makes perfect sense.
I was just about to ask "what about the English term".

Thanks Charlie!

I think, for ease of understanding, lets refer to it as either,
but I'll try to use Limber Pole (as it seems easier to remember).

...
Yeah I can see your point (Charlie) about the amount of Ammunition.
But I didn't think the ammunition amounts were much at all.
40 doesn't seem like that much to me.

And 32 seems like a lot less!
I wondered why a larger Limber had not been created for the British Gun.

This Mk2 Limber carries 32 rounds.
Its bigger than the earlier Mk1 style...
but if my eyes don't deceive me, the Mk 1 carried 38 rounds for the 18pdr Gun!



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Old 08-25-2019, 07:49 AM
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Moving forward...

you can see the "axle" dowel fitted here.
It is a 6mm wooden dowel with no paper covering.

It is unclear if the actual Limber has an axle tube running through the box...
there appears to be bolt on Hubs on either side of the box.
But, I learned from the Saladin build, that a light solid axle is much better for support (for paper wheels).



As you can see in the above photo, I am building up the frame/base of the box with layered parts.
These will build up the area where the Hubs attach.

Many other details must be applied to the box surfaces...like these angled reinforcing sections.



Also added - the lower extensions (to the underside panel).
Not sure why these are added on the real thing?...it doesn't seem possible that the box could bottom,
but maybe they are added as skid bumps or some sort of extra ground protection?



And, to finish the side panels, I added these raised sections.
On the real thing, the side panels are embossed for strengthening.

I made the mistake of double layering these parts.
They only need to be a single layer added to the side panels,
but they accidentally got lumped in with other parts that I double layered.
So my side panel 3D details are bit exaggerated.

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