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  #21  
Old 12-16-2011, 03:35 PM
daisycutter daisycutter is offline
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i dont know much of u.s ships pre war or otherwise but one ship i do know of is the uss cyclops,i would love a kit of that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cyclops_(AC-4)
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  #22  
Old 12-17-2011, 03:00 AM
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Gil Gil is offline
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U.S.S. Oly...,

Hi Jim,

From an old archive...,

+Gil


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  #23  
Old 12-17-2011, 03:54 PM
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jimkrauzlis jimkrauzlis is offline
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Thanks, Gil!

Interesting subject to surf the WWW to find what is out there; although initial searches disclose many identical photos once you get past those various dups you can find some very interesting and revealing photos, many of which are posted in individual photo albums and in some interesting archive sites.

Looking forward to seeing all of this information come to life in the form of a model....

Cheers!
Jim
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  #24  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:57 AM
dto dto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daisycutter View Post
i dont know much of u.s ships pre war or otherwise but one ship i do know of is the uss cyclops,i would love a kit of that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cyclops_(AC-4)

Plans for sister ship USS Jupiter are here:

HNSA-Booklet of General Plans

Since USS Jupiter was later converted into the aircraft carrier USS Langley, I'd love to see paper models of both Langley and Cyclops.

Also note that the Historic Naval Ships Association plans page also has 1895 plans of USS Olympia. Other ships if interest include the armored cruiser USS Montana, the never-built BB-49 USS South Dakota, destroyer USS Bainbridge, gunboat USS Erie, Eagle Boat #60 (should be relatively easy to design in paper, since Henry Ford insisted on using flat steel plates for much of the hull), and many others.
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  #25  
Old 12-18-2011, 01:38 AM
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Gil Gil is offline
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Great Resource Site...,

Thanks dto. Great resource site...,

Bien Cordialement, +Gil
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  #26  
Old 12-18-2011, 08:24 AM
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jimkrauzlis jimkrauzlis is offline
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Thanks for the valuable link, dto. It appears, however, that the plan set shown for Olympia are fair to poor schematic diagrams of the ship, and don't provide the normal ship line plans or detailed general arrangement plans one would normally require to create the hull shape and fill in the various deck details. There are a lot of better plan shown on the site, some very detailed schematics, making it a very good place to start.

Cheers!
Jim
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  #27  
Old 12-18-2011, 05:16 PM
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jimkrauzlis jimkrauzlis is offline
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Speaking of details, does anyone know where a photo might be had showing the shape of the rudder on Olympia? The plans I have show the profile shape, but don't give any clue as to the potential cross section or girth of the rudder. Some photos of models out there provide inconclusive information, such as the attached...some showing a "fat" rudder, others not so much.

Any thoughts on the appropriate shape would be very much appreciated.

Cheers!
Jim
Attached Thumbnails
U.s.s. Olympia 1895-c6-11.jpg   U.s.s. Olympia 1895-heck.jpg   U.s.s. Olympia 1895-olympiaachtern.jpg   U.s.s. Olympia 1895-smith-20oly-20aft-20profile.jpg  
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2011, 09:05 PM
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Approximation...,

Hi Jim,

The rudder shape remains a quandary. The following is from Wikipedia's page on the "Indiana Class Battleship". The Oregon was also built by the Union Iron Works in San Francisco just a short time after the Olympia. Ironclad marine architecture maintains that the rudder from one design was somewhat like the rudder on the next design. Besides it's a great photo to study...,

+Gil

P.S. Note there's only 45 stars in the U.S. Flag & OSHA - What's that?...,


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  #29  
Old 12-18-2011, 09:48 PM
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jimkrauzlis jimkrauzlis is offline
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Thanks so very much, Gil!

Great photo, and it seems to be a rudder shape very similar to that portrayed in the Smithsonian model (the last photo in my prior post)...not exactly fat but also not thin either...a rudder with some heft. I recall reading the Olympia had a rudder with a wooden core, something I had not heard of before. Would love to find a photo like this for the Olympia, but the similarity is possibly not coincidence but could be the construction practise of the Union Iron Works.

45 stars...1896 when Utah joined the Union....
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  #30  
Old 12-18-2011, 09:56 PM
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Hudsonduster Hudsonduster is offline
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Gil's given us a good source, a pic of a real ship. It agrees with the sideview draft he posts for the Polish archive, with the added gift of 3D rendering in full-scale. Did the moldmaker have this photo in front of him when he made the master, and was he paid to care?

It's useful to consider how much of the fashion in hull design for this size and mass was based on actual tank tests, and how much was from "thought experiment," which was still considered a viable scientific procedure at this time, at least as Naval architecture institutions were concerned.

Let that go, though: we have a shape to look at.

Look at how the water will "see this shape: when the rudder deflects, the flow continues past the end of the hull without cavitating, and water hitting the rudder at its angle will not hit a big flat front edge but a comparatively-sharp leading edge. (The thought that it encounters that relatively flat plate at a high angle of attack may not have occurred to the designer, but let that go!)

Nice digging, Gil.

'Duster
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