PaperModelers.com

Go Back   PaperModelers.com > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:45 PM
CharlieC's Avatar
CharlieC CharlieC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,903
Total Downloaded: 5.46 MB
Schneider CF

A possible model for people who like to do something really different - the Schneider CF Autopropulseur.

It was designed to carry the 220mm Long Schneider gun (barrel 7.5m long). The Schneider gun proved to be so heavy it was difficult to move even with contemporary tractors. Eugene Brillie (designer of the Schneider CA1) designed a petrol-electric driven vehicle to carry the 220mm gun and permit it to fire from the vehicle with little preparation. 12 of these monsters were ordered before the end of WW1 but after the Armistice this was reduced to 4. (Check the images - compare the size of the men in the images to the vehicle). They remained in storage between the wars and were captured by the Germans in 1940 - their ultimate fate is unknown.

Regards,

Charlie
Attached Thumbnails
Schneider CF-schneider_cf_1_gom.jpg   Schneider CF-schneider_cf_2_gom.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
  #2  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:06 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 15,771
Total Downloaded: 120.19 MB
What a magnificent self-propelled gun! With the splinter shield in place, it's really a good-looking piece of ordnance.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:55 AM
rockpaperscissor's Avatar
rockpaperscissor rockpaperscissor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The thriving metropolis of Hopewell Junction, NY, USA
Posts: 3,316
Total Downloaded: 41.50 MB
I would definitely have a go at that one. A very interesting potential model.
__________________
Regards, Don
I don't always build models, but when I do... I prefer paper. Keep your scissors sharp, my friends.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2018, 06:16 AM
CharlieC's Avatar
CharlieC CharlieC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,903
Total Downloaded: 5.46 MB
I've got a series of scale drawings of the 220mm gun from the original French manual - I can send those to you. I think I've got some vehicle dimensions somewhere. The Schneider engineers basically dropped most of the gun carriage into the SPG chassis - they sort of had to because the gun was a dual recoil system with an inclined ramp carrying the gun and hydraulic recoil/ pneumatic recuperator. The images of the SPG usually show the barrel pulled back on the carriage - the gun's breech was pretty close to where the crane on the SPG is when the barrel was in battery.

Regards,

Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2018, 06:38 AM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 15,771
Total Downloaded: 120.19 MB
Thanks for the additional info, Charlie.

With that long barrel, I presume there were counterweights at the rear of the chassis?

Don
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
  #6  
Old 09-15-2018, 12:14 PM
John Wagenseil John Wagenseil is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Eastern end of the Mid West US.
Posts: 2,106
Total Downloaded: 1.47 GB
Charlie, Forgive my ignorance and being too lazy to google. Is this SP gun self propelled or does it get its power from a generator on another tractor?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:25 PM
CharlieC's Avatar
CharlieC CharlieC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,903
Total Downloaded: 5.46 MB
Hi Don, apparently not - the barrel was counterweighted as per Schneider practice. Schneider didn't set the trunnions back like Krupp did and didn't use equilibrator cylinders. In fact on the Schneider guns the trunnions were close to and slightly behind the centre of mass of the barrel so they used counterweights above the breech to balance the barrel. I think the length of track on the ground gave a stable firing platform so they didn't have to worry about balancing the mass of the gun. The SPG also had no suspension so it would be pretty solid on the ground. The St-Chamond SPGs were similar - the 194mm gun version didn't have any counterweights and seemed to be a pretty stable firing platform - although it did roll back about a meter or so for every shot - there is a video of the Saint-Chamonds firing in 1940 (link the article referenced below).

Hi John, The Schneider was self-contained - it had a 6-cylinder 135hp engine driving a generator. It also had an auxiliary 4 cylinder engine to drive the traverse gear (no idea how that worked) and other stuff. The Saint-Chamond SPGs used two vehicles - a tractor with engine and generator and the gun vehicle driven with electricity from the tractor. The Schneider SPG couldn't carry ammunition beyond perhaps a couple of rounds or many people so it was dependent on a munitions vehicle (maybe a Schneider CD?). There's an article on the Saint-Chamond SPGs at Landships II. There's hardly any information on the Schneider SPG in English - even the French historians didn't know much about it until some recent work in the French Army archives.

Regards,

Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2018, 05:30 PM
CharlieC's Avatar
CharlieC CharlieC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,903
Total Downloaded: 5.46 MB
And I meant to add a drawing of the 220mm gun in battery. It looks like the Schneider designers just took the inner part of the box frame and dropped it into the SPG. Certainly the frame that carries the gun and recoil/recuperator looks much the same between the standalone gun and SPG.

Charlie
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Schneider_L_220mm_in_Battery.pdf (148.0 KB, 17 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2018, 08:36 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 15,771
Total Downloaded: 120.19 MB
Thanks for the usual very through and clear response to both of us, Charlie.

I should have reviewed your excellent Landships II article before I mentioned counterweights. The images clearly show that there were no counterweights.

I also went back and looked through some of our old correspondence on self propelled guns, the Hinds Board, and so on. Interesting stuff, but still haven't produced that article . . . Wonder what happened to Jeff Nestor?

Don
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 9.09%
Parts of this site powered by vBulletin Mods & Addons from DragonByte Technologies Ltd. (Details)
Copyright © 2007-17, Paper Modelers.com