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Old 08-23-2007, 02:57 AM
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Gil Gil is offline
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DC-3 (Again)

Hello All,

I've been working on this design off and on for several years now and recently decided to make another attempt at getting somewhere with it. It didn't take long to become totally mired in details that either weren't obvious in the documentation or was completely wrong. Most of the time has been taken in staring at photographs to get the details right. Just remember one thing, "there is no such thing as accurate documentation" and that also includes any of my own personal output as it's also based on the "drivel in - drivel out" principle (I am doing my best to get it right though). The fuselage has been completely redrawn so many times now that I've lost count. Each time the fuselage is redrawn the wing fillets have to be completely redone and so on..., Some of the shapes look deceivingly simple until you start designing it and soon find out that this bird has some areas which must have taken a lot of super fudging to get them right. The aim is to get the wrinkles in the same place as the full scale model. Funny thing that...,

I personally like this bird (a lot) and for one design to span from its first flight in December 17, 1935 till the present gives an amazing amount of latitude for just one basic airframe. I'm just doing the DC-3 design currently but will have additions for the C-47 and foreign manufactured birds also. I've given some thought to the distribution of the finished model and haven't come to any real conclusions yet. The scale will be 1:32 and 1:24 with the larger size model a simple enlargement of the smaller one.

The photo below is a tease render of the fuselage front view.

+Gil

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Old 08-23-2007, 03:53 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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I'm happy to hear you've moved the DC3 from the backburner, Gil. As for the intricacies, I can fully empathize - I once made a simple 3D model of it for the Xplane flight simulator, so I have some idea of what you're up against, particularly in the cockpit area, the fuselage-fin area, and the wing-fuselage fillets.

But it it a beautiful aircraft, and so unique in its versatility. In the sim version, I've flown it several times across the Atlantic (by way of Iceland, Sondre Stromfjord, and Goose Bay, which was the classic route for the DC3 transports during the war), and have fond memories of that.

As you know, I would be among those first in line to savour a civilian or neutral model of this classic. A "white" version with the rivet lines would be an ideal first step, since the DC3 appeared in so many liveries, and national & company markings.

So, here's hoping a few more steps in that direction will be taken by you.

Leif

PS. Anticipating your reply - no, the 3D model in the Xplane sim is altogether much too simple for anything you would need. It wouldn't be of any help at all. You are already way beyond that. But here's another teaser (from the Farm Security Administration collection of colour slides at the Library of Congress). Looks a little bit like a BIG card model, doesn't it? Note the intricate shaping above the cockpit side window, just to highlight an example of what you are saying:



Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 08-23-2007 at 04:23 AM. Reason: Getting it right
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:11 AM
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Hi Leif,

Yes, it's been awhile since I left off from the last go at it. My skills have improved in the interim to the point where they aren't the limiting factor any longer. Funny you should post the very picture where the people are riveting the glazing frames into place. It is that very column which holds much of the secret to getting the nose joggled into the main fuselage correct. If you look closely at the post in front of the sliding window you will notice that the frame from the nose to the cabin roof angles back ever so slightly through that post. This is something not well contained in any of the "view" drawings. The other point that's not well documented is that the frame side section for the sliding window is flat to accommodate the window. Most sectionals show it round which it isn't. Sorry for the slight rant but those two items chewed up nearly a days worth of work to get right. In many respects this work is identical to sculpture and has all the same nuances. It takes a while to get it to look right you just need to keep chipping away at it. Rhino has a good set of filleting tools that make fairly short work (well almost) of most normal filleting work. The wing fillets took some time before the right combination fell into place. Most of the time all you have to do is to study the airplane very carefully to see how the metal was shaped and fitted followed by using Rhino as the Electric English Wheel for shaping surfaces to airframes...,

+Gil
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Old 08-23-2007, 04:35 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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I know - and it took me way longer than a day to get that particular section reasonably right!

How about this for synchronicity - right at this very moment George on this site uploaded a tip which is a goldmine, Flight International cutaway drawings! Here's their DC3:



The source is: http://www.flightglobal.com/StaticPages/cutaways.html, and their section for civil aviation 1903-1948.

I have uploaded this image to my galleries, but it is such a pity that the site doesn't allow showing the full image. So go to the original source.

Leif

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 08-23-2007 at 04:39 AM. Reason: Getting it right
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Old 08-23-2007, 06:29 AM
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rlwhitt rlwhitt is offline
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Gil,

I'm rooting for you to get this one out there as well. This is one of my all time favorites and would love to attempt to do a repaint in Piedmont Airlines livery. This was a regional airline (later bought out by USAir) that started in the city near where I live and operated DC-3s in the early days, so it'd be a cool build for me.

Good luck!
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Old 08-24-2007, 02:43 AM
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Nice URL Site

Looking for detailed photos of the landing gear I happened upon the following site. High resolution close-ups are the stuff model designers only dream of and then every once in a while something like this comes along...,

http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/ma...dex.php?Page=1

+Gil
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Old 08-24-2007, 04:01 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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Many thanks, Gil!



Until now, this was the best I've been able to find. Yours, of course, is a great improvement.

Leif
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Old 08-24-2007, 03:53 PM
blueeyedbear blueeyedbear is offline
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The first flight I ever made on an airliner was on DC-3 in Mohawk Airline livery, from Watertown, NY to Boston. This was in '54 or '55. I would love to see a Mohawk DC-3, or any of a bunch of little operations in that era.

I've flown in lots of airliners since then, but there is still nothing like sitting in your seat, leaning back at an angle, while waiting for a tail-dragger to get airborne!

Bob
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:22 AM
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Some Progress

Hi All,

Seems this bird brings out a lot of memories for a lot of people. A pretty good reason to model such a well received bird with as many plumages as one can ever dream of.

Work on the engine nacelle skins has, as usual, taken more time than anticipated. One thing about Rhino is that more you use it the better you become. New learning experiences always seem to be just around the corner. Needless to say I've learned several new and valuable things about this software over the last several evenings.

The photo below shows the Port Engine Nacelle surfaces. I spent several hours in getting the render to look just so for the teaser shot. Upside of spending the time is that it can be used on all the other assemblies at show and tell render time...,

Oh yeah, it's the Pratt & Whitney version. Pilots who flew the Wright Cyclone version were renowned to have kidney problems for some reason...,

+Gil

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Old 08-28-2007, 12:41 AM
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An Interesting Build



The above is a plastic model build (good grief!) but with an extreme twist that Leif Ohlsson will enjoy immensely. Helps if you parle francais but there's enough images to more than explain the build. A build done well whether in plastic or paper is always a pleasure for a dyed in the wool modeler. Now to do this using card as the base..., Hmmm...,

http://www.master194.com/maquettes/madman/dc3/index.htm

+Gil

Last edited by Gil; 08-28-2007 at 12:46 AM.
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