Douglas DC-4 / C-54 for Paper Trade: Berlin Airlift.

[Erik Zwaan]

Gents, let's consider this as constructive criticism with the aim to get the best possible result. Scon10 and Glenn do have a point. If you look carefully at the second picture in Diderick's recent post, it does give the impression (trick of the eye or not) that the central post is almost vertical, whereas it should be placed at a certain angle. If you google "KLM dc4" there are lots of pictures that indicate the angle. I have included two pictures for reference and will look for some more as the DC-4 is on display at the Dutch national aircraft museum "Aviodrome" and I've taken a couple of pictures there a few years ago when I visited the museum. Will check later and come back to it.

Keep up the good work,
Erik

[Diderick A. den Bakker]

Sorry I got carried away - knowing how carefully Cor uses the available information for all his models. And perhaps mistakenly, I took sgoti's remark As someone who has watched many scale manufacturers get the windshield contours right, almost right, and completely wrong'to imply that he also referred to the DC$ on the drawing table. Sorry for that.
But to solve the F7A windshield discussion once and for all: may I suggest that sgoti go to this museum with a large sheet of paper and ask help to climb on the nose and make a template? And a piece of cardboard with a simple spirit level should be enough to decide the vertical angle of the windshield?! I am confident the museum people will be only too pleased to assist in such an unusual project!
Subject closed, as far as I am concerned.

[Erik Zwaan]

Here's a picture of the DC4 at display at the Dutch national aircraft museum. If you look at the shape of the nose I'm a bit puzzled. It must be a retrofit of a later date and more like a DC7 nose. Anyway, the angle of the windscreen center post is clear to see.

Diderick, I have a few (cockpit) interior pictures as well. If you're interested, please let me know.

Erik

[Diderick A. den Bakker]

Earlier in this project Cor sent this 3d picture. When he sent me the recent photographs he remarked that this was just a quick test build. I am convinced that the final model will show the correct angle.

[scon10]

In the report on windshield materials and mounting, CAA (forerunner to the FAA), 1950, USA, I found a picture of the construction of the DC-6 windshield, side view and top view. Maybe this is helpfull. I believe the DC-6 windshield was unchangedd from the one of the DC-4.

[dutchbuilt]

Hello

I am Cor van Haasteren or "dutchbuilt" looking at this forum with pleasure and sometimes a bit astonished. Hereby I send you some pictures of the DC-4 3D development. The angle of the windshield has been changed over the course of the research and I think it is currently pretty OK. Thank you for the suggestions made by many contributors, but at a certain moment in time things have to be ready and the process must be terminated. There is always room for improvement and I apologise if there are sometimes matters which I did not get right in the way some of you expect it to be. Anyway thanks for all the interest in my models and I will try to improve every time we undertake a new project. I hope you enjoy the hobby still if sometimes not every detail is absolutely correct.

with greetings designer Cor

[Petestein]

Originally Posted by dutchbuilt

Hello

I am Cor van Haasteren or "dutchbuilt" looking at this forum with pleasure and sometimes a bit astonished. Hereby I send you some pictures of the DC-4 3D development. The angle of the windshield has been changed over the course of the research and I think it is currently pretty OK. Thank you for the suggestions made by many contributors, but at a certain moment in time things have to be ready and the process must be terminated. There is always room for improvement and I apologise if there are sometimes matters which I did not get right in the way some of you expect it to be. Anyway thanks for all the interest in my models and I will try to improve every time we undertake a new project. I hope you enjoy the hobby still if sometimes not every detail is absolutely correct.

with greetings designer Cor

I agree 100% with your comment. Your models are perhaps the finest available. And several people think they find inaccuracies, foolish issues which make no sense. They forget this is a hobby. These models are not designed to be used by aircraft manufacturers or the military needing absolutely 100% accuracy. I think that a scale model, either card, balsa or plastic can be made accurate enough to represent the full size version without having to measure to the nth..... detail in stupid issues like the angle of the windshield. So lets appreciate what wonderful models Mr. Haasteren has given us, lets enjoy them to the full and, naturally, if someone out there is not satisfied with this or that allegedly wrong detail, he is absolutely free to try and correct it without degrading the designers enormous effort to give us an accurate model, good enough to be constructed and proudly exhibited in our homes.
We mustn't forget that designing a card model is perhaps one of the most demanding and difficult task. Very few people, and I mean it, can sit down in front of computer, design and prepare a beautiful scale model. It is even much more difficult than preparing a plastic model kit let alone a balsa model. Keep up the good work Cor and all the very best.
Pete

[Petestein]

Additionally I want to mention how polemical this DC-4 subject has been ever since someone suggested Mr. dan Bakker to design and sell a copy of the DC-4. All types of comments, some even losing any respect not only to several forum members but also to Mr. dan Bakker and Mr. Haarsteren. I am sure this model will be perhaps one of the best available, Be sure of that. And rest assure these two Dutch gentlemen only want to give us beautiful, affordable card models for us to enjoy.
Pete

[reklein]

The drawings by Dutchbuilt look fine to me. I'm eagerly awaiting the combination of electrons that will give me a physical entity representing the reality of the famed C-54.

[sgoti]

Originally Posted by Diderick A. den Bakker

Sorry I got carried away - knowing how carefully Cor uses the available information for all his models. And perhaps mistakenly, I took sgoti's remark As someone who has watched many scale manufacturers get the windshield contours right, almost right, and completely wrong'to imply that he also referred to the DC$ on the drawing table. Sorry for that.

No, I was referring only to the F7. If I had been meaning to comment on the DC4, I would have mentioned that specifically.

Originally Posted by Diderick A. den Bakker

But to solve the F7A windshield discussion once and for all: may I suggest that sgoti go to this museum with a large sheet of paper and ask help to climb on the nose and make a template? And a piece of cardboard with a simple spirit level should be enough to decide the vertical angle of the windshield?! I am confident the museum people will be only too pleased to assist in such an unusual project!

Not going to happen.

Museums are very protective towards their displays, and certainly would not allow anyone to just climb up, on, over, or through their exhibits. They have worked very hard to obtain and restore their exhibits, and will not condone/allow activities that might cause damage to those exhibits.

Adding to that fact in my country is the unfortunate trend away from personal responsibilities and towards blaming everyone else for the results of one's own actions.

In other words, there is no way the museum is going to allow the potential liability of me being injured as a result of my actions, no matter how many waivers and indemnification release form I offer to sign.