Designers, what's your thought.

[ct ertz]

Back in the day when I was much younger and had a full time job with over time and no real responsibilities, I did Civil War reenacting. I owned a full scale 1842 mountain howitzer, maintained the uniforms, side arms and powder/primers for an 8 person crew, and paid for gas to get us places. I was averaging blowing $200 or more a week in expenses.

Now, I have a wife, kids, bills and so on, so I do not do reenacting. Making and designing Civil War era ironclads is my small way of connecting with the past, and much-much cheaper then owning, (and feeding) a cannon!

My programs are gimp and sketchup, and others are kind enough to do test builds for me, so my costs in cash out lay are zero. I do spend a lot of time on research, but I would be doing that anyway. I spend about 1 to 2 hours a day about 4 days a week playing on the programs.
CT

[Tirick]

Originally Posted by APA-168

In response to Tirick's comment about this being a dying hobby, I would have to disagree. There is a new generation of designers (myself among them) that are finding a different route to paper modeling. I came to it via my interest in graphic design. I suspect I am not the only one, and I feel that the design aspect of the hobby has the potential to keep young people interested. Even if the actual model building doesn't appeal to them as much in and of itself, the challenge and fun of designing something and seeing it come to life is still there. I think it will be pretty interesting to see how the hobby develops as more and more people start with designing and end up building, instead of the other way around.

It is encouraging to see younger people interested in the hobby for certain. The plethora of online hobby locations however (from what I can tell online) are located in Europe and Asia. I can only watch sadly as some of my favorite hobby/game shops start closing the doors on modeling products in favour of faster hobbies like boardgames.

I certainly got my start with an interest in CAD, although I've no formal training. I could not justify (to the wife) spending $100's on programs for it however. I stick to my open-source stuff where I can and a five-year old Pep. license.

[Darwin]

I guesstimate about 250 hours so far on the Colorado design, with another 100 or so to go to get it to the point I would be comfortable releasing it. I wasn't intending giving it away, but am going to keep asking cost low...any revenues I may realize will be plowed back into purchasing reference materials for possible future designs (and I assure you that the vendors of scale drawings definitely don't give their product away). At best, I might expect to realize about 35 cents per hour for the labor put into producing the model....I could do better working in a prison if monitary gain were even a minor consideration for designing something that doesn't presently exist. It is indeed a labor of love.

[mbauer]

Hi Goodduck,

I'd be rich!

Since starting my SR71 design back in 2002, I have over 3000 hours doing different redraws. To do retractable landing gear, took 1.5 years of drawing/experimenting.

I have about 20-different versions of the SR71 on my computer. All kinds of different configurations to test it for flying.

I've found as you different models of various aircraft, you invent new ways of doing a particular part. If it works good, sometimes it is redraw time on other models to make them easier, stronger, lighter for flying.

But what really takes the time is the instructions. My F104 originally was done in three days (34.8 total hours). The instructions added 89-hours to this! My models are as simple as possible to keep the weight down, so part count count (deatil items) is keep as low as possible.

My carreer choice is doing AutoCAD drafting. AutoCAd keeps track of drawing editing time, so I know how much time I have in each project. At $5 an hour, I wouldn't need to look for work...

As far as money for materials? I've bought a basis weight of 125# Tag cardstock. Yes the box weighed 125 lbs [56.7 kg]. This cost me $280 usd.

The ink to print one 9ft long [2743.2mmm] SR71 Blackbird was 1.5 ink cartridges at $33 per cartridge (24-pages of 24" x 36" [609.6mm x 914.4mm])

Printers? My first wide format cost $65 used. To get a wider format (24" wide [609.6mm]) cost $480 plus $295 shipping to Alaska.

Last year I bought a newer wide format for $575 plus $195 shipping to get it to Idaho. it uses 6-ink cartridges that cost $34 each, plus printheads that cost $40 each.

If you factor in the cost of my 2D AutoCAD program ($800), the money and time will never be recouped...

The most received for a printed model "kit" was $50 on eBay for a 4'-9" [1238.25mm] Remote Controlled SR71 Balckbird (sold 2-of them {each has about $20 worth of ink invested}).

I do give some models for free, but, since being out of work, been trying to make a little money selling the models as PDF files on-line.

Once the PDF files are done, not much time is required to sell them. Printing kits to sell adds more time and ink costs, so the PDF is the way to go...

One thing I'm trying with the free downloadable models is "advertising". If you check out the Stomp Rocket Tutorial download here at PM.com, you will see my business cards! www.ecardmodels.com is in several places along with Logos. They are under the Toys and Automata download page.

I do have a freedownload of my SR71 "Habu" (Blackbird) available in the aviation section as well.

When somone downloads the free models and contacts you with photos to thank you for them, the feeling inside is worth more than money!!! Compliments really do work with me!!!

A final comment? Another way to look at this? My spare time is spent drawing models. I'm divorced, so one of the things I do is go out to have a beer. Beer at bars costs 4-5 dollars USD here in Alaska. I drink about 2-beers an hour. 3000hours = 6000 beers x $4.50 = $13,500.00.

Model designing is my way of saving money! Bonus is I get to meet Great People like you!

Great questions! Thanks for asking.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by Tirick

This is (in NA at least) part of a dying hobby. Few people younger than my generation seem to be interested in modeling of any kind.

Well, for one thing the younger generations expects instant gratification. Computer gamiing gives this, cardmodels don't!

But, the internet/economy is helping to promote our Hobby!

Look at how many have signed up in the last 6-months here at PM.com!

It is up to us to use this to our advantage!

Look at what Chip at Fiddlersgreen does for the troops!

There are all kinds of markets that haven't been tried yet (museum gift shops, magazine advertising to name a couple).

To try these markets, a group od designers pooling their models, and as group doing some advertising might work to expand even further.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[silveroxide]

I have one of those best times in life. I am retired and I spend a lot of my time designing, building and researching for my models. By nature, I do a lot of scratch building, and sometimes I go so fast that I forget to make templates for some of my models. I really do not look at the expense or the time as restrictions on the hobby. I love to do it. I see a model that catches my eye and I say to myself "Self, you can do that". Every model to me is a challenge. Even the simple ones can be extraordinary with a little bit of research and imagination.

"Why do you do it?

"For the joy of it!"

[looker]

If you factor in the cost of my 2D AutoCAD program ($800), the money and time will never be recouped...

Mike, Seeing as it may be a cheaper alternative you must promise not to beat me up before reading the rest of this message.:D I use another CAD program and in fact I know nothing much about AutoCAD (- heavy or lite). Even so I wouldn't mind knowing your reaction to DoubleCAD XT v2

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by looker

Mike, Seeing as it may be a cheaper alternative you must promise not to beat me up before reading the rest of this message.:D I use another CAD program and in fact I know nothing much about AutoCAD (- heavy or lite). Even so I wouldn't mind knowing your reaction to DoubleCAD XT v2

Hopefully nobody here thinks that I attack or pick on anyone. Everybody has a different opinion. Some are better than mine, some are not.

Having said all of that, I try to learn from everything said or commented on!

Ok, just checked out the home page. I use AutoCAD LT that the page mentions.

Will be downloading to see how it does, but right off the bat, it does things I wish AutoCAD would do (transparent fill is #1).

Thank you for the link, I'll for sure try it.

I have been school trained to do 3D, but I find that doing everything in 2D requires more thinking the parts out. Instead of "unfolding" them, I get to put them together.

I have been working on an AutoCAD tutorial on how I do my designs. It is almost ready to go, although the Stomp Rockets have kept me from it for the last 4-months.

I've been using some form of AutoCAD since 2000 when I went to a 2-year degree program at the University of Alaska Anchorage (Architectural and Engineering Technology Course [AET]).

There are a couple of shortcuts, expedient tricks to use when using CAD to design. I want to share them, in hopes that someone will add to the list....

Sorry, Goodduck for taking your thread off topic.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer

[2Kamser]

hi goodduck
my perspective as an "end user" is that is to suggest what Tirick suggested, try to do some for free first to wake the interest of the community, and then when you have a couple of them under your belt, try to sell them via sites like ecardmodels

one problem i can see that you designers face is - how does my models stand out from the rest, how does my models compare to what's out on the market, have i found a niche to fill that nobody else have and what models do i fight against

for me as the "end user" i will gladly pay for good models (like Kens') and try to give some back for your efforts

i would myself like to design models one day, knowing that i will never get fully compensated for neither time or material, but i would do it anyway just for the fun of it

[goodduck]

Thanks for all the inputs for me to chew on. Truth about kids nowadays. But lucky for me. Both my 8 and 13 yrs old beside doing Lego, DS and now iPod Touch. They do paper crafts too every now and then. So there is hope for mankind.

I know I'm not going to make much selling card models to cover all my cost. But, just hope I will sell enough to cover the print job. Cause, I thinking when I'm finally ready to go public. I'm going to offer it as a printed model. Not going to print it myself. I'll take it to a local printer to print whatever the minimum quantity.