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Old 12-31-2016, 08:42 PM
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VinceM VinceM is offline
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Color scheme for WW1 Troopship

Here's a question for the naval buffs out there. I am trying to convert a model of the SS Kronprinzessen Cecelie to it's WWI conversion to a US troopship, the USS Mount Vernon. I am trying to figure out what color scheme she had. All I could find were black & white photos. Apparently her black & white sides were painted a solid color (light grey?) at the beginning of the war, then dazzled sometime during the war.

So here's the dilemma: what colors would the US have used? I know some early US warships were white, or a light blue. In the picture where she's tied up alongside the hospital ship Comfort, the funnels are black topped with a light (white?) stripe. The bright white stripe indicates the rest of the ship isn't white, she's grey or light blue. The story there is that on her last trip to America as the Cecelie, the crew painted the tops of her yellow funnels black to disguise herself as the RMS Olympic. This happened early in the war, yet the photo says 1920, after she was mothballed.
In the dazzle scheme, the funnels don't have the black & white tops. So was she "undazzled" after the war?

I haven't decided whether to depict her in a single color, or dazzled. If I dazzle her, I don't know appropriate colors there either. Blues, blacks, white, greys?
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Color scheme for WW1 Troopship-mt-vernon-uss-comfort.jpg   Color scheme for WW1 Troopship-mount-vernon-3.jpg  
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Last edited by VinceM; 12-31-2016 at 08:47 PM. Reason: clarify photos
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2016, 11:09 PM
Thumb Dog Thumb Dog is offline
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Hi VinceM,

You are asking THE question when it comes to one of my favorite subjects, dazzle camouflage. In trying to keep my answer short in a vastly confusing subject, it should be said that most modelers are very forgiving when viewing another modeler's WWI dazzle camouflage, because there are so few firm answers to the question. Try to view as many interpretations as possible before settling on your own choice of colors. The Imperial War Museum has a number of wooden models showing different schemes in many different colors. The model at this address shows a typical American scheme.

Dazzle Painted Ship Model-USS Yamacraw (MOD 510)

American ships usually wore a black, white, grey, blue combination in either four of five colors. In the aforementioned IWM photograph, I believe the blue appears too rich and dark, but how can I say for sure?

Research and guesswork will play equal parts in your quest. Select a palette that satisfies you and you'll be successful in avoiding the torpedoes of criticism.

Best of luck,

Score and fold,

Thumb Dog
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:43 PM
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John Dell John Dell is offline
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The dazzle camouflage of World War I is something that has always interested me too. Here are a couple of books on the subject. I have the one from the first link and can highly recommend it. I have yet to get the second.

https://www.amazon.com/Dazzle-Disgui...zle+camouflage

https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Shape-Da...zle+camouflage
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Old 01-01-2017, 12:04 AM
Thumb Dog Thumb Dog is offline
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Hi again, VinceM,

I'm attaching the address of an article that appeared in the blog, Camoupedia, in 2014. Its title, "What Was It Like To Paint A Ship In Camouflage?", may be of interest to you.

C A M O U P E D I A: May 2014

If you do decide to go the dazzle camouflage route, you'll have a tangible tie to these men and their unique efforts of 100 years ago.

Score and fold,

Thumb Dog
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Old 01-01-2017, 06:19 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Wonderful resources!

Don
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Old 01-03-2017, 04:39 PM
hornswoggler hornswoggler is offline
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Here is the link to another nice page with world war I dazzle camoflage patterns. It may give you an idea about the various colors in use which you can't easily guess from looking at black and white photographs.
RISD Fleet Library: Special Collections
Enjoy
Hornswoggler
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Old 01-03-2017, 05:29 PM
Thumb Dog Thumb Dog is offline
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Hi All,

The RISD collection is a great source, but the palette is a bit limited. Here are two collections of color chips. One is vintage, while the other is modern and "color corrected". Also attached is a photograph of my favorite dazzle example, HMS Polyanthus.

Score and fold,

Thumb Dog
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Color scheme for WW1 Troopship-dazzle-color-chart-2-copy.jpg   Color scheme for WW1 Troopship-dazzle-color-chart-copy.jpg   Color scheme for WW1 Troopship-polyanthus-1-copy.jpg  
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Old 01-04-2017, 08:32 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Its a shame we don't have more colour photos of older subjects, like these WW1 Ships.
But, even if we did, we couldn't trust those images
since early colour photo processes often resulted in heavily augmented colours.
And keeping in mind that many early colour photos were also tinted/painted/colourized by hand.

Judging from some of the information found at Camoupedia (what a wonderful site),
and original directives and documents,
along with artist's reports and paintings from the period,
it looks like the initial paintwork was suprisingly bright and vibrant, with strong rich colours.

Obviously, paint colours became muted and worn very quickly
by the effects of the corrosive and abrasive Sea water...

wonderful discussion.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:11 AM
Utnapishtim Utnapishtim is offline
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I think M33 has been painted by reference to the colours they found when she was being refitted. Quite muted, particularly when compared to President.
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:12 AM
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zubie zubie is offline
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Wonderful subject. Working fron assumptions of B&W photos is always a problem that I've seen argued a lot (even color doesn't mean much, noting a recent reading on whether a p-51, Lou IV, used blue camo or not). While color might not be available, there are some paintings visible on the net, some of which capture the more workaday look of the ships.

For instance

(http://onviolence.com/images/2013-02/sslepanto.jpg)

(http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...zzle-paint.jpg)
Article on slate
John Everett dazzle painting images: Ships in camoflage during WWI.

Of course as paintings, there may be some artistic license, and it is more about what it looks like. For example, I found another Mauretania image where some red and yellow were added apparently for effect - http://www.1250scale.com/Feature%20A...aniaposter.jpg (full article http://www.1250scale.com/1250Mauretania1918Olsen.htm )
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