2nd model built, reactions and thoughts

[k.warner]

Ok, so I just finished up my second completed model... images below.

The model was one of the free ones available on these forums, the T4E1 Combat Car by Alberto Perilli: PaperModelers.com - Downloads - T4E1 U.S. Combat Car 1934 - 1/48

I really enjoyed this one, but I have a few observations I want to get some feed back on. First, I just bought a cutting mat, and I must say, that helped every aspect of the build. I was able to cut smaller bits with less sliding, and I was able to actually put less pressure on the blade to get it to cut properly. I was disappointed though, in that I still was not able to get quite as detailed with my knife as possible. It reminds me of the last model I did, an iron clad steam ship that included an itty bitty steering wheel. I simply could not cut out small enough bits without ripping the fine detail of the wooden rudder steering wheel. I had some of the same issues with this model. My hands are steady, I have better than 20-20 (really ) vision, but the detailed parts end up looking ragged. I see guys on these forums cutting ridiculously detailed bits and pieces, and I want to figure out what they know. I think I just need a better knife, as I am using the xacto blades left over form when my wife decided doing her own sewing was not for her.

Ok, next, tubes. All of my gun barrels are just me frustratingly rubbing tubes tighter and tighter between my finger tips to make a solid bar of paper. The technique was not elegant nor did the detail resulting look either realistic or neat. So, what gives? can anyone point me to the spot on the forums that gives the deep dark voodoo magic that is thin tube rolling? I finally got some experiential insight into how wider tubes work when I managed to make the exhaust pipe cylinders and glue the edges together on those. Take home lesson: wider diameter tubes=easier than thin diameter tubes.

As for the tracks, I was looking at some of the tank track threads on the forums and man, THAT is neat stuff. Unfortunately, I read them AFTER i made these treads, and I plan on starting to integrate some of the techniques on the next model I work on.

Also, I came away with two notes: 1. I dont need tabs. I actually end up with tighter joints with out cutting tabs... this model did not come with tads, requiring me to make that leap of faith. The places I did need tabs, like for the sections above the tracks, I use separate pieces of paper bent appropriately and glued in as supports. It worked this time, but is that a good habit to get into, or are tabs the way to go? Or personal preference?

Small circles: I found my old belt hole punch as suggested in another thread.

I also opted to add a little more details to this model not originally in the model. I got to wondering about exhaust, so i did some research and found where the exhaust pipes went, and build those from scratch. I also cut out a second copy of the hatch on the front and the grates on the back, and glued those on top to give some depth. On a whim, I put some track pads on the side like I have seen on Shermans, although i couldn't speak to the historical aspect of that. I thought of opening a hatch, too, but as there is nothing in side, that would not have looked good.

Over all, a great model, lots of fun, and a good beginner piece. I plan to do the M2A1 next from the same collection: (PaperModelers.com - Downloads - M2A1 U.S. Light Tank 1938 - 1/48) and see if i can get a little more precise with cleaner cuts and tighter joints. I need some advice on the next model after that though: I am looking for a model of US Army armor from World War II or later, preferably a Sherman or Patton, which has directions for building it. I also want it to be a bit larger than the 1/48 scale I did on this combat car. The most important thing is the details though. I see mind blowingly detailed road wheels and drive sprockets and even hatch hinges on some of the models in these forums... THAT is what I want to do. I am willing to pay a *little bit* for the next one... Any suggestions?

What do you say, gentlemen?

[B-Manic]

Nicely done Karl. My second model sure never looked that good.

[The Orange]

Now that you've confirmed this cutting mat a success, I'll go off and buy one for my new man cave!

Sharper tools I would say, not necessarily better, but sharper tools do help. I use #11 blades bought in bulk, ($24 for 100 blades) and they work. I'm no expert at small bits, having only done a few myself here and there, but I believe what is mainly needed is practice. (Practice after all does make perfect! Or close to perfect). Tools are a great asset no doubt, but I believe practice and experience are key. (Then again there are some insane small scale builders, Getter 1 and Texman to name a few, who are just insane with small scale building ) Personally, lately I've been practicing by cutting pieces rather than doing full models. I design some circles, rectangles, and other odd bits in Meta and unfold in Pepakura. Print and practice. It gets repetitive and tedious no doubt, but it does help!

Rolling Tubes

Ah, rolling tubes, a skill that is definitely helpful! I, again, no expert in this subject either, but I take a soft surface, such as my mouse pad or some rubber, and grab a stainless steel cylinder. I take the side of the piece that has no ink, and roll across. Now, all this explanation isn't making sense, so here's some threads from the experts!

Gil (Jeebus Cripes!) - Sub 1 mm Paper Tubing

Johnny - Making smaller tubes

Wilfried (Building an excellent FW-190 in the aviation subforums I might add) - Paper tubes - rolling round itself ...

And here's some related topics, mainly discussion ones on the subject -

New forming tool

Mouse Pad for bending card stock?

Joining long cylinders


And here's the subject in action, thanks to lehcyfer -

Marek Marathon: Morane Saulnier AI - Polish Air Force 1921

Tracks

Tracks? I believe I die when I see single track sections that need to be built up, or at least cringe at the sight. However, the result, at least from what I've seen, is breathtaking!

Some stuff on Tracks -

KCStephens and his amazing Panzer -

Panzer IV Ausf D

CharlieC and his informative work on Panzer Tracks -

Panzer 1F tracks (resurrected)

Discussion on Tracks -

Tank tracks



Tabs

Tabs? Personal preference I would say! I've used them for a long time, and more recently I've decided to go without the tabs provided by the model. I think making one's own joining tabs are a great choice. However, some models require the tab to be used. For further reading, there's some current discussion on it here -

Models with and without tabs!!!!!!??

Small Circles

Small circles! I find them to be evil! My two punch sets aren't formidable enough to hold their own against these piece types. I believe you have done an excellent job on them!

For further reading on circle cutting -

Outersketcher and his Kolywopter (some out of this world circle cutting, and building, in this thread) -

Kolywopter

Discussions on Circle cutting -

Recommendation of cutting circles and small areas
Improve Your Circle Cutter
Cutting large circles and rings
Compass Cutter Really Sucks!

Comments

Extra details are always good to add! I do a bit of that, but again, there are many other modelers who go insane with the details! The result, again, is no less than spectacular.

For your second build model, no wait, disregard that first part. Your model build is excellent! From the photos you have some extremely clean work, and I do envy that. It doesn't seem like the tubes are giving you any problem at all. If they do get too small, (some on the forum believe they can never get too small and insist on rolling the smallest of tubes), you can replace them with wires of different thicknesses. I love all the little details you included, especially the scratchbuilt pipes! (You sir are on your way!) One little thing though. You seem to be interested in learning a lot about this form of modeling, and I applaud you for that. May I add, that edge coloring is a good skill to learn, and from the pictures, I can see that you already know a great deal about it. I suggest investing in some acrylic paints, (even the cheapo 50 cent ones work, I use them! ) so that the edge coloring will be more uniform with the model print. There's another thread on that here -

Edge Coloring

Cmag's use with watercolor pencils -

Edge Coloring with Watercolor Pencil and Back-to-Back Parts

Other Discussions on the subject of edge coloring -

Coloring edges?

Color mixing

watercolors


And a really informative thread I suggest reading and taking into account is this one by Rutek -

Treating the edges

I learned a lot from Mr. Rutek's diagrams an explanations, and have been trying to learn them. I think they are difficult to perform, but from the results, they look worth it!

Aside from just that bit, really fantastic build!

Future Model Build Suggestions

If you're feeling up to it, I have some suggestions.

Gremir has an M3 Grant available. It looks pretty detailed! I know its not a Sherman, but it's a looker!

M3 Grant

Not US Armor, and probably not larger than 1:48, but these look like great models -

-icm--'sƒy�[ƒp�[ƒ‚ƒfƒ‹

KCStephens did a marvelous build up of the Panzer model -

Panzer IV Ausf D

Aside from that, I would recommend PTA's Shermans. They aren't larger than 1:48, but are also great models.

- 1/72 M4 Sherman Desert Camo - ECardmodels.com Shop - Downloadable models and crafts for builders of
1/72 M4 Sherman Green Camo - ECardmodels.com Shop - Downloadable models and crafts for builders of
-http://ecardmodels.com/product_info.php?products_id=252

Truth be told I'm not too well versed with armor at the moment. These are not the best suggestions, just some I thought that are O.K.

Great build, and I hope to see more from ya!
(I believe I died from typing this. Hopefully this will condense some information down so you won't have to go hunting for it. I probably made a million grammar/spelling mistakes! )

[Jim Nunn]

Karl,

That is a very nice model and to think that it is only you second build.

Cutting small parts.

Every one comes at this from a different direction. These are the methods I use.

Very sharp knife, I use scalpel blades and I sharpen them every hour or so, I did the same with #11 blades. You can tell when the blade is sharp it glides through the paper. a dull blade tends to rip it.

The paper is a big factor. paper has a grain much like wood. some papers are course and others have a finer grain obviously for models you print out use the fine grain paper. The bad news is that the papers look the same. If I am sampling a paper I have not used before I tear off a strip and look at how it tears this will help determine the grain. The bad news here is that with commercial kits you cannot control the quality of the paper.

Think about the order of cutting the small part. for me I start with the center and then cut the outside of the part. If the part is to be folded scribe it and fold it, then cut the small center open parts and then the out side.

So much for techniques, now the we get to the Super Secret S**t. I often use Clear Butyrate Dope thinned 50/50 with the appropriate thinner and paint the back side of the part. when you have it right the paper will become transparent. The dope does not change the color of the print and seems to bind the fibers in the paper. let the paper dry for at least a couple of hours or over night. This adds a little stiffness to the paper and it will keep it from falling apart when you cut it. I have also used Future floor wax and thin Cyano glue both work well but the Cyano glue will make the part harder to cut and it will change the color slightly. I have been building the KW P-39 model and it was printed on very high quality fine paper that has a high rag content. Without painting the part sheets with the dope the edges would fray and on small parts 1mm in size the paper would just fall apart.

Something to be aware of is that the ink on your print outs takes quite a while to completely dry so let your printout dry for a couple of days. Some of the European modelers Iron the paper on a high heat setting. protecting the printout by covering it with 2 or 3 sheets of card stock.

Keep up the great work

Jim Nunn

[k.warner]

Wow! Orange, thanks for the one-stop-shop of solid gold forum threads... I have read alot on these fourms, but there is so much, having you point out these is a real boon to my sanity. Also, note that the Alvin cutting mat is the ONLY cutting mat I have used... It works, but as I cannot compare it to anything, I do not know if its quality is much better than another's. The price was right, for sure, and it worked jsut fine for me.

As for the edge coloring and "treating"... I was not aware that was a "technique." I just colored the edges with a black magic marker. I think from what I have seen around here, the first step in improving one's models is improving one's edges and joints. My wife, during her "I want to be an artist" days, bought a ton of the acrylic paints you speak of.. I will put those to good use! Perhaps I can use them to paint mud and dust spatter as well.... hmmm.

With the next model, I have used photo shop to enlarge the entire model by 125%. I hope that works for making a bigger model that I can add more detail to.

Mr. Nunn, thanks for the insight into the glue-painting small bits so they hold up to cutting! I look foward to trying that out. I imagine I can buy the suggested glue at lowes or Office Depot?

Similarly, the choice of paper.. I am using 65lb Office Depot store brand..umm.. not card stock but the other one, card cover maybe? I saw Bristol, card stock, and cover, and just picked one in the middle at a medium weight. I think next time I am out at an office store, I will buy a few heavier reams to cut down on laminating; the road wheels on my last model required 16 layers of the cover paper! I have also noticed on some of teh more detailed models they seem to use some very thick paper.. the equivalent of 6 or 8 sheets laminated of what I am using. What is that paper called?

Lastly, you both mention #11 blades and Mr Nunn mentioned a scalpel... is there a good thread on cutting implements, specifically xacto blade sizes, scalpel, types, etc?

[Miles Linnabery]

Dear Karl:
Nice job on the tank. I will second(third?) the sharp blade coments, ond woodcarvers saying "if you can shave with it you can Carve with it".
Being an old woodcarver I have a 100 grit wheel and a polishing wheel with powder spinning at 1860RPM takes 90 sec. to put new edge on #11 blade. sugest you look into a hard sharping stone and a piece of basswood rubbed with red jewlers ruze (sp).
Good luck,
Miles
Note: look in your area for a woodcarving club and ask them to help you learn to sharpen.

[k.warner]

@ miles: Thanks for the tip! I put myself through school on a combonation of the GI Bill and working as a sushi chef. I have several japanese river stones to keep my yanagi-ba and funyaki blades in tip-top shape. They certainly get my knives past razor sharp (the tips of my fingers are forever numb becaue I have cut them so many times in the line of duty on the sushi bar... they do not even bleed any more), so I suppose they will work on an exacto blade. I will report on how well that works; the finest stone I have is a 500 grit medium soft, so I may need to get something a bit finer and harder, as the stone is made to sharpen the carbon steel of my knives, not hardened stainless steel like the scalpes and exacto blades.

[The Orange]

No problem Mr. Warner, hopefully it proves helpful for the future!

As for the paper, I believe cover stock is the same as card stock (same thing just referred to with two names). Purchasing heavier stocks may be a good choice for keeping lamination low. However, I suggest using plain cardboard, like the one you find in cereal and other food box products. I believe those cardboard have a thickness of 0.8 mm and 1 mm. Just inferring here, but I think the very thick paper that you are referring to is cardboard. However, I've seen cases where modelers use many pages of cardstock to get the thickness right. Personal preference? Perhaps.

I'm not sure if there's a thread specifically on cutting tools. There are a lot of discussions scattered about, but not sure if there's one specific thread. I think a lot of people prefer Excel blades over X-acto, from what I've read. I would give them a go if you have the chance.


Can't wait to see your next model - Make sure to post a build thread too :P

[Jim Nunn]

Karl,

Sushi Chef! and I'm telling you to sharpen a knife. Scalpels can be purchased on EBay typically 100 type 11 blades and a handle will sell for $10. The #11 blade is the standard pointed X-Acto blade.

The "dope" I spoke of is available from your local hobby shop it is used on tissue covered flaying models to stiffen the paper and protect it from the fuel. If you are not used to using lacquer based paints I would for now stay away from using it. it is very flammable and the fumes it gives off will do you no good. Try the future floor wax (its really a liquid polymer plastic) is available in you local market use ammonia cleaner (also available in the market) to clean up your brushes

You are using 67 lb paper this is the standard for building models, generally called cover stock or card stock. In my area we have Kelly paper stores, check in your area for paper stores that service the printing industry. Most have open displays of paper and you can usually purchase 1 or 2 sheets as samples to try out. Some of these stores will give you the samples.

For the thicker card stock many modelers use what they can find and recycle. Think cereal boxes, shirt stiffeners (a few of us have been known to buy a new shirt just to get the card stock), UPS envelops. The two sizes you will need are 0.5 mm (0.020 inch) and 1 mm (0.040 inch) you can also make this heavy card stock by laminating 2 sheets of 67 lb card stock for 0.5 mm and 4 sheets for 1.0 mm use a glue like 3M-77 spray glue to laminate the card stock.

Sorry for the information overload the best thing to do is build the models and don't let all this technical stuff get in the way of your building. just have fun

Jim Nunn

[modelperry]

Karl,

In response to your question:
"Ok, next, tubes. All of my gun barrels are just me frustratingly rubbing tubes tighter and tighter between my finger tips to make a solid bar of paper. The technique was not elegant nor did the detail resulting look either realistic or neat. So, what gives? can anyone point me to the spot on the forums that gives the deep dark voodoo magic that is thin tube rolling? I finally got some experiential insight into how wider tubes work when I managed to make the exhaust pipe cylinders and glue the edges together on those. Take home lesson: wider diameter tubes=easier than thin diameter tubes."

Try printing the sheets with these parts on regular copy paper. Thin paper rolls sooo much better. Also, you could delaminate thicker parts that require rolling. To do this I roll the card stock piece as tight as needed and then unroll it. You will see the paper split into plies (like toilet paper). Just carefully peel the plies apart and re-roll.

Oh and your Alvin cutting mat: This is exactly what I use when I'm building away from home. It is the best cutting matt I own. I just don't use it at home because mine is a little smaller than I like on my desk.

Greg