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  #41  
Old 05-06-2010, 08:48 PM
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Swampfox Swampfox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer525 View Post
This strikes me just like those audiophiles who claim they can tell the difference between a $100 stereo and their $5000 tuner with $3000 speakers. Which ain't so... The human ear just isn't that sensitive. I'm not entirely sure what cardstock you've been using, but not one of the colored stocks I have ever used is any different in texture, feel, fiber, grain, or any other characteristic than any other cardstock I have used. The only differences were in weight.
Wow!! I've finally been accused of being "high brow" at something in my life!! I gotta show my wife this one;-) At least it's for something important, like card stock.

I've only noticed this problem when trying to make a smooth tight curve with no actual "sharp bend" in the surface. Like the curved leading edge of a wing. The colored stock I've used curves in small increments. breaking every mm or 2 and leaving small fractures along the places where the curvature is at it's maximum...... I typically use 65lb stock.

I'm going to try to find the stock you mentioned. Thanks for the advice.

And keep in mind, that each of us see's the world a little differently than anyone else. Maybe I'm very a-tuned to finer changes in texture and color than the average person......a paperphile you could say;-)
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  #42  
Old 05-07-2010, 05:50 AM
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lancer525 lancer525 is offline
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Make no mistake... I've not "accused" you of anything. I'm merely drawing an example, that I don't think there is enough noticeable difference in the paper. They are all manufactured the same way, so that there couldn't be any notable difference. I've worked in a paper mill, one that actually produces cardstock, so I know that there is no appreciable difference.

If you're having trouble getting smooth curves, it could be atmospheric, or it could be that you need to pre-form the part before you cut it out. I use one of Shrike's "Roly-Stik" tools, in addition to a few small pieces of nickel-steel rod of varying diameters that I have. AA and AAA batteries can also make good rolling tools.

I curved out the leading edge of a SPAD model done at 1/144 or so, by gently rolling the part around the wire from a coat hanger. I didn't get any issues, it rolled out fine, and looked okay to me even under my jeweler's magnifier. I'm not entirely sure why you're getting problems, the paper shouldn't be so stiff that you can't manipulate it into shape.
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  #43  
Old 05-07-2010, 06:10 AM
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SCEtoAUX SCEtoAUX is offline
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To further lancer525's suggestion about rolling the parts, start with a large diameter then work down to a diameter smaller than the final diameter of the part. That way you give the cardstock a memory of the curve with less chance of the cardstock buckling or forming unsightly crinkles along the length. The final small diameter of the rolling process will allow for some spring back of the part so it will closely retain the final diameter needed.

Take your time when rolling the decreasing diameters. It may seem tedious but I have found that starting with the very large diameter and working down to smaller diameters does give a better result. It seems to gently alter the cardstock fibers so there is less chance of them crinkling.
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2010, 10:15 AM
bigbenn bigbenn is offline
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Hi,
I've only been doing this for just over 25 years, so I guess I've got techniques down pat now.
I build large scale ship models from paper kits - I start off with B&W photocopies which I have enlarged on a photocopier to the scale I want to build at (A4 to A3, then cut out the parts, glue to another A4 sheet and photocopy enlarge again to A3, until I reach a size where futher enlargements beome awkward).
I use Acrylic water based paints which come in tubes or "pots". It is easy to wash brushes afterwards.
Alternatively, for tricky paint colours, I go to a paint shop with the kit colour scheme and buy sample pots of waterbased paint which I have mixed up by the paint shop, using their clever computer to work out the mixes, which it does very well.
I start with the largest parts of a model first and attach the smaller parts to them, in this way, I don't need instructions which are in the wrong language anyway, other than the diagrams which I do use.
I build the keel and cross sections in 4mm strawboard and this forms the structure on which I build the rest of my model.
I construct the internal parts of each model with thicker card, onto which I glue the external thin card to which I have glued the B&W photocopy "skin". This gives a very strong structure.
When a model pattern is accurate, it enlarges accurately, when it is inaccurate it tends to be more difficult to assemble, because I have to make corrections to the hull, to still get the decks to fit accurately and I'm having that problem currently with a kit I purchased sometime ago.
More about my model building, should anyone be interested in my technique.....
Ship models, I design to come apart at the waterline, so I have upper and lower keels and I cut out space from the keels, and cross sections to allow electric motors and radio control - yes all of my ship models are for radio control and working - not just static scale. To make a model waterproof, just varnish inside and out, after all painting is done. The hull which has contact with the water, needs to be tested to be watertight. Fill a bath with cold water. Push the lower hull down into the water and check for leaks. Mark them, when the hull has been dried, apply PVA glue and when dry, varnish again over those spots and try again until the hull is watertight.
I paint individual parts before glueing those parts to the structure of the ship, as I go along.
One of the tricks I have developed is to get razor edge finishes, where paint colours change or for example, camoflage patterns on hull, superstructure, guns and so on (like the Supermodel model of the Bismark which I built 10 years ago.)
What I do is to get a few sheets of photocopy paper and paint the sheets in the respective colours of the camoflage. Then it is a simple task to cut out the patterns from the sheets and glue that directly onto the model or paint the model with the colours and use a copy of the outline of the colour scheme to transfer to my painted sheet and cut out and glue that pattern onto the end of the colour change, etc.
I used this technique to cut out the colour scheme on Drakes ? of 1544 and the paint scheme was quite beautiful afterwards.
Rivets, droplets of PVA glue which dries clear. When you paint over them - voila.
Indented rivets, you can get a dressmakers tool which is a wooden handle joined to a spiked wheel, which dressmakers use to mark out tissue paper before they cut with scissors - costs a couple of $ for the tool - just run the tool around plates of armour or whatever and when you paint the detail stands out.
Windows or portholes up to about postage stamp size, just smear a bubble of PVA glue over the hole and allow to dry and there is the window. (After the model has been painted of course).
If you want to make round wheels which spin true or turrets for tanks or ships - just get a thin tube from a sweet (we have sweets called Chupa Chups here) and cut lengths of thin card, the width of the wheels to be built. Then glue one side of the card strip (I use PVA glue) and wrap the length round and around the thin tube, until you have constructed the desired size of the wheel, pulling tight from time to time. If you do this carefully and in line, that's it. After removing the tube, (just pull it out) set the wheel aside to dry. If you did the job right, then when the wheel is dry it will spin true - then you build the stuff on the outside, according to the kit, to finish it off.
I have used my wheels on several models with "rubber tyres", cut from thin rubber sheet I got from Clark Rubber (they sell rubber products) glued around the outside of the wheel and then fitted to a small electric motor with a rudimentary steering gear to have my models chug around by R/c.
BigBenn
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2010, 05:04 PM
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Rutek63 Rutek63 is offline
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Since we just talked about edge coloring in Chris's thread overwhelming him with massive amount of information:

AOE P-51B Lambie II Dual build - on hold

I decided to transcribe some of my knowledge of that matter into this thread, hopping that it will help Chris and others to build better looking models. What eventually will make us look better in the eyes of pros, specially now when we became a part of the IPMS/USA. I'm still learning too, so I'm also open for now good ideas.

Let me start by interjecting my observation. I have noticed unnecessary practice of edge coloring on some of your models in the places where you don't really need it at all. I'm talking about situation where you're glueing edge to edge. If you cut the edges correctly and join them correctly, you will not need any coloring.





Painting those edges, especially if you don't match the color perfectly will only make the seams more visible.

Sorry for my grammar, when I'm rushing my grammar suffers.
Regards!
Peter
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  #46  
Old 06-10-2010, 09:06 PM
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lancer525 lancer525 is offline
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Rutek: That's a great statement! I just wish that my skill were up to making it a reality for every single seam. The thing I do to get around it, is build my models out of cardstock that is as close to the color of the part as possible. For the red bottom of a hull, I use red cardstock. If the interior of the edge is the same color as the exterior of the paper, the edge will be indistinguishable from the surface.

So just exactly how do you get such smooth fit? What do you do with the glue to make your seams so flush?
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2010, 11:09 PM
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Thomas Meek Thomas Meek is offline
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Beautiful old Brazilian Sobrado by Mauther
Downloaded as .bmp file, saved as PhotoShop file while working (PhotoShop, Gimp), saved as .jpg for this post.
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Covering up fold lines and edges-before.jpg   Covering up fold lines and edges-after.jpg  
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  #48  
Old 06-12-2010, 11:58 PM
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Rutek63 Rutek63 is offline
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Hey Lancer,

Color cardstock is the excellent idea. Unfortunately there are limitations. You won't be able to build an airplane fuselage painted in camouflage and all those printed rivets and access panels etc... So, by using color cardstock, your work will be limited to simple models and uniform areas, like the red bottom of a hull. By using the method that I'm proposing you will be able to put together any part of a model where the part's edges join under almost any angle, without any need for edge coloring.

Now to answer your question.
The key to the smooth fit is to cut the card under the right angle, precisely in the middle of the line and avoid touching the edges except for the cases when you're working on the edge to improve it,s quality, bevel or quality of the fit. If you get those things right you'll cut edge coloring by at least 70 %.
the second part of your question regarding glue I'll answer later on.

Since I'm not talking about covering up folds and coloring edges, but other kind of treatment, I'll put my ideas in the new "Tips and Tricks" thread:

Treating the edges

Regards!
Peter
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  #49  
Old 06-13-2010, 06:31 AM
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lancer525 lancer525 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutek63 View Post
Hey Lancer,

Color cardstock is the excellent idea. Unfortunately there are limitations. You won't be able to build an airplane fuselage painted in camouflage and all those printed rivets and access panels etc... So, by using color cardstock, your work will be limited to simple models and uniform areas, like the red bottom of a hull. By using the method that I'm proposing you will be able to put together any part of a model where the part's edges join under almost any angle, without any need for edge coloring.
Peter: You're right, all I've ever done were things that were uniform in color, such as ships, rockets, and a few aircraft that were solid colors, so colored cardstock has been the way to go for me. I've never attempted anything that had color variations such as you describe, and I completely agree that your method is one of the very best I have ever seen for edge coloring...

Quote:
Now to answer your question.
The key to the smooth fit is to cut the card under the right angle, precisely in the middle of the line and avoid touching the edges except for the cases when you're working on the edge to improve its quality, bevel or quality of the fit. If you get those things right you'll cut edge coloring by at least 70 %. the second part of your question regarding glue I'll answer later on.
This is interesting... I've never given it any thought about angle of bevel, or any type of detail like that. It's hard enough to cut right directly on a line, without some minor jog or error. Most of my models have been drawn with one pixel wide lines, at resolutions of 300 DPI. Cutting right in the center of a 1/300" line seems impossible! But, I am eagerly looking forward to reading more on this.

Quote:
Since I'm not talking about covering up folds and coloring edges, but other kind of treatment, I'll put my ideas in the new "Tips and Tricks" thread:

Treating the edges

Regards!
Peter
I'll have to check that out in a little bit. I've got a couple of things to finish before I head out to work. Thank you for taking the time, and for having the willingness to explain!
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