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  #11  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:50 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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ass is a well used, well coined word meaning "stupid person, or person acting stupidly or irresponsibly"
I stand by my use of that term.

yeah, the tit for tat name calling is fun...pointless...but sometimes fun.
Gerhard made a point of calling me and my comments funny.
I was just being funny in return.

------------------------------
I disagree with you Ruben, in this instance.
100 people is a good cross reference of online digital model activity.
And I think it does reflect a common attitude towards internet models.
I wouldn't call it an accurate scientific study, but a good reflection.

I stand by my idea that of 100 people, most (at least 90%) download a model because its free
and to add it to their "collection" like a paper model hoarder.
My own experiences with my own models... substantiate this
More than half a million free downloads, extensive download records and 10 years of forum feedback.


Very few downloaders have a serious intent to build within a short timeframe.
Some think they might want to build it in the future, and grab it now just in case.
If it was a paid for model, then only one or two would buy it in support of the designer.
And another one or two would buy it to build it (now or later).
But the rest would pass, because its not free.

I'll make that bet with any type of (digital) model from any designer.


I'm the same way as Gerhard in that I love to see the response and feedback.
I want to see my models built.
And if praise is due, I love to hear it.
I often resort to asking for feedback and demanding to see builds,
but only in a positive way, with fun and community support in mind.
To assume that I am that important to demand you "build my model or else!",
would make me a complete ass*...I prefer being incomplete.


*LOL Trust me...the irony of that term isn't lost on me!
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
I disagree with you Ruben, in this instance.
100 people is a good cross reference of online digital model activity.
And I think it does reflect a common attitude towards internet models.
I wouldn't call it an accurate scientific study, but a good reflection.
And I disagree with your disagreeing ! :P

I'm not sure if 100 isolated people can actually serve as a thermometer
on an on-line phenomenon. It may be if that is compared in parallel to
other similar data. So if you can observe that a similar age-group discrimination
can be found on the downloads of your own kits, then that can be called a tendency.
But as far as I know you have never asked for age information from anyone downloading your kits.

I've seen in many other places (DeviantArt just one example, 4chan the just another)
how youngsters actually build paper models. But they mainly build pokemons,
anime dolls/figurines and mechas, and cubees, which are not the subject of Gerard's kits.
That population can hugely affect the results of an analysis that considers the whole of the hobby.

And interpreting the results only from one website, without considering
the existence of those people outside it, is not a valid reason to say
that young people are not attracted to paper modelling.

But... the "attitude" you mention, may certainly be true.

"Free" things are more attractive to most of the population.



And I'm one of those who have downloaded many of your KoolWeheelz
just because they look fine and are free and have never built any
(or maybe just one).

Sadly, the desire for free things also has some negative side effects.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:07 AM
bob neill bob neill is offline
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I think I should apologize for joining this ... discussion. I had trouble getting the password for the Connie. Since much of the E-mail we receive is undesired, when I do not recognize a sender, I look at subject. Since I did not recognize your name and you had no subject, it was deleted quickly. After sharing E-mail I now have your Connie in my collection waiting for a runway on a train layout.

Currently I am involved with trying to build model railroad layouts. Much of my time is consumed by setting up the tables, building the scenery, building kits for engines, rolling stock and structures. When my Dad was building his my interest was drawn toward aircraft, but I could not find a way to blend pl...ic kits into the trains. Years later when I discovered paper model and computer printing, I was thrilled with the option of changing the scale to fit together.

With model railroading we also have a concern about getting young people involved. At one time television seemed to be consuming most people's time, today seems to be the computer. It seem that Labor Saving Devices (LSD) are consuming many people. Some are using the computer create things worth sharing, but others abuse the tool.

I admire models that are free downloads because they are within my price range. When I find a young (or older) person interested in paper models, I offer to provide a printed model close to their desire (yes, I try to corrupt young people).

I generally do not share photo's of the things I build, mostly I do not think they are worthy. I have shown my models where I have space to defend them and challenge others to build something. For laughs, I tried to attach a photo of a paper mine building on my N gauge layout.

I thank you (all of you) for providing beautiful models and guidance to build them.

Bob Neill
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Ruben, I have found age to only be a factor when considering topics and themes.
And you are correct, I have not examined the actual ages of the people who download (or purchase) my models.
Again, because it applies more to subject or topical interest.

For example...a larger younger generation is interested in anime, science fiction, gaming and figures.
Whereas the majority of interest pertaining to WW1 and WW2 Miltary Aircraft, vehicles and Ships lies with older generations.
Thats not to say there isn't a mix of ages in all topics, but I think we can agree there are less senior citizens attending the local meet of Star Wars modellers.

My judgement and my opinion is reflected by what I have seen on the forums and within the modeling community over the last 10 years.

Sure, I'm also including what I know about the people who have downloaded my own models,
but I've seen what happens at ecardmodels and other retail outlets that also offer free models.
I've seen what happens at my own online store, which also has a free model section.
I've spoken to others and learned their web surfing, downloading, and collecting patterns.

No, 100 people on one website is not a basis for a scientific study.
But I'm suggesting that you could easily compare the download practices of these 100 people
to the norm across most paper model sites.

Heres a good example of what I am getting at...
at ecardmodels, I offer a conversion kit for a Spitfire model.
Its free and has been downloaded about 600 times.
I offer the same kit in my store for free and its been downloaded hundreds of times.

Now, this is a conversion kit, only works with one model...only has a few parts.
This is clear in its description.
You need the base model to use any of the parts.
Its absolutely useless in any other way.

But I've only sold a few dozen copies of the base Spitfire model in the last 5-6 years.

So why have all these people downloaded this free conversion kit?
Why bother?
Unless its just because its free, and its there, and it adds to their ever growing collection of free and found models.

I think this one instance reflects the general attitude that crosses all ages and all topics of paper model available on the Internet.
Its not the ONLY reason people collect paper models...but for 90% of the models that are downloaded on the internet, it is the only reason people have those models.

And if you poll the 100 people who have models from gerhard, I think you'll get common responses.
The model was free.
I may or may not build it, but it was free, so what the heck.
It might not be available later.
I just want to add it my collection regardless of whether I will ever build it.
Did I mention it didn't cost me anything.


And because I believe this is the common response you'll get from anywhere/anysite
thats why I said gerhard's 100 downloaders would offer an acceptable cross-section of modellers.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2018, 03:22 PM
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Amccombs3 Amccombs3 is offline
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One data point: I have a colleague who, for quite a while, downloaded every free model he could find using websites that listed such models. He printed each of them, and then spent the rest of the evening happily paging through the printouts. He only attempted to build ONE of them, and because he is a perfectionist (in an admirable way), when something would go wrong, he'd crumple it and throw it in the trash, reprint it, and try again. He never finished a single paper model, but he still enjoyed downloading, printing, and perusing them.

I build models; none of them live up to my hopes (sometimes embarrassingly), but I think my skills are improving; and yeah, I have a backlog of SABLE proportions. (SABLE: Stash Accumulation Beyond Life Expectancy).

My collector friend and I each enjoy the hobby in our own way. There's nothing wrong with that.
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  #16  
Old 04-16-2018, 03:41 AM
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Paper Kosmonaut Paper Kosmonaut is offline
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Gerard is not the only one making it harder for people to get their free models or 'hiding' models behind a password or even a ridiculous quest. *CoughUHUcough*. Although I think these kinds of methods are considerably futile in the end, I also think it's their good right to do so. They're their models. No one else should have the right to say in what way people share their designs.

And as a message to Gerard, I understand not seeing people building your models can be frustrating, but in this I agree with other voices in this thread, lots of people are collecting. Just to have the model for the moment they want to build it. I do it too. I have about ten models printed out and ready for building in a folder on my desk. Then I go and print another one I immediately want to make instead of taking one out of the folder. It's impulsive. That's how it works.
FYI, I actually am working on your FH Phantom at this very moment and it will be placed on my blog and here in about a week or so. And I like the model. It's a lot of fiddling but I like it.
Don't let your creativity be discouraged. Just keep designing your models.
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  #17  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:02 AM
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Rubenandres77 Rubenandres77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
Ruben, I have found age to only be a factor...
...
...
...
... thats why I said gerhard's 100 downloaders would offer an acceptable cross-section of modellers.
Understood.

And your experience and observations may be right. As anyone with some time
spent on the different forums may have seen some similar phenomena.

I agree completely on what you say in your message.

However, my point originally challenged the validity of a tool that doesn't
answer the question:

"why paper modeling wasn't a hobby-subject for youngsters although it's
cheap and challenging
".

A "why" can not be answered by numbers alone. We can gather
information on place, age, and pdf file downloaded. But that will never
say anything about the motivation a person had to download a kit.
And it certainly doesn't give any clue at all about why a specific
demographic group does not engage in the hobby.

To answer a why it is necessary to ask direct questions, establish relationships,
and apply some observation and proper judgment to arrive to conclusions.

That question ("why paper modeling wasn't a hobby-subject for youngsters...")
requires a direct questioning to the subject being observed, i.e:, the youngsters
who don't do paper modelling
, and a thorough analysis of their answers,
which may be many and quite different from each other.

In that sense, I'm not convinced at all the chart Gerard made public
is useful at all to answer his question. It has never addressed the
problematic population, and never got any close to their (non) motivation.
It is just a bunch of personal information made public that not him, nor us
can use to answer the why young people are not engaged in paper
modelling. But it may be useful to answer any other question, specially:
who, when and what age downloaded what from a certain page.
So, he designed a tool that was useless to answer his question, or he just
made up that question after the fact. In any case, nothing is solved.
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  #18  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:15 AM
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"Why Why Why...Why didn't Rick kill Negan?"
Questions we may never answer thoroughly.


Ruben...Agreed.
I got the impression that the personal information and the list are more of an attempt to "shame" people who have taken models and not built them or shared feedback.
I think thats the central complaint we have about Gerhard's post and comments.

I can remember when I used to whine about people not building my models, not posting comments and feedback...
I still do beg for signs that my models are of interest.

But threatening to lock away my models, or blocking their distribution...
or making any sort of threats towards the community...
is not going to make my models any better received.

I don't really understand the questions about why paper modeling isn't a hobby-subject for youngsters?
I'm not even sure what the question is?!

Why is paper modeling not available to youngsters? Who's stopping it?
This I don't understand.
Are you asking "why isn't it taught in school?"?
To which my answer would be "no hobbies are taught in school!"
Hobbies are something you find on your own and get involved in.
I worked with paper when I was a child. I had Press-Out books, Paper models and paper crafts.
I also built plastic models, stick and tissue models, did sculpture and painting....

This question baffles me.

Maybe there is a language problem here...and some of Gerhard's thoughts and ideas are being lost in translation or misinterpreted?
I'm not implying anything negative...just trying to offer answers to why we are at odds over the topic of this thread.
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Last edited by airdave; 04-16-2018 at 07:36 AM.
  #19  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob neill View Post
Currently I am involved with trying to build model railroad layouts. Much of my time is consumed by setting up the tables, building the scenery, building kits for engines, rolling stock and structures.
Isn't it funny how many "Train" fans are actually sculptors and miniature modellers.
Without realizing it, or under the guise of "model trains" they spend more time working on the layouts and all the secondary features.
lol
In the end, the Trains can become the secondary elements and lose all their importance.

I've seen layouts that are quite amazing on their own.
You don't even need to fire up the Trains! lol

If we were to get really picky, we might say a true Model Train fan
just has a train on a track on a carpet in the middle of the floor! LOL
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  #20  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:38 AM
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Rubenandres77 Rubenandres77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
...
I got the impression that the personal information and the list are more of an attempt to "shame" people
who have taken models and not built them or shared feedback.
I think thats the central complaint we have about Gerhard's post and comments.
Exactly. At least in my case.




Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
...
...
But threatening to lock away my models, or blocking their distribution...
or making any sort of threats towards the community...
is not going to make my models any better received.
If anything, that would make people want to not build them.
Nobody wishes to please a whining person who makes threats and tries to shame others for not pleasing him.



Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
...
Maybe there is a language problem here...and some of Gerhard's thoughts and ideas are being lost in translation or misinterpreted?
...
Probably. It happens.
We are using English here, but it is not Gerard's nor mine first language.

With that in mind, it is possible that the original question would be something in the lines of:
"why young people are not interested in paper modelling?" (I've been interpreting like that in my replies).
That is a question that certainly arises from seeing the mean age of people downloading the models
from Gerard's site. That's more than evident in the chart.

But even if it was the question, it is not answered because of what I discussed in my previous reply.
And it is challenged by what we can see in other websites that show young people engaged in paper crafting.
They're not building Halinskis, but at least they are cutting, folding, and gluing.

.
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