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Old 04-13-2018, 11:51 AM
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gerard1938 gerard1938 is offline
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4 more and I'm finished

Attachment 344767Attachment 344767Of all 96 colleague modelers the 94th password-mail I sent down was replied.
My peer from just beyond the Nepalese border, Kirti Prakash replied not only with a mere thanks, but a cheer modeler's talk completed with some of his
neat creations s.a. this 'Bihar' model.
In spite of his friendly mail I intend to submit four more passwords and then give up the show.
The few still following my retireman's business I'll keep on dumping all rubbish on my cardboarded blog.
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4 more and I'm finished-bihar.jpg  

Last edited by elliott; 04-14-2018 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Remove image with personal information
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  #2  
Old 04-13-2018, 11:51 PM
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John Bowden John Bowden is offline
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Gerard......... how do we get our password back? I think I lost it when my computer crashed at the end of last year.

Also does the password work for all of your models or just the one we requested?

john
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:24 AM
PhantomCruiser PhantomCruiser is offline
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I requested a password for the F86. In my mind it's one of the prettiest aircraft (warbird) to ever take the sky.
  #4  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:37 AM
Rubenandres77's Avatar
Rubenandres77 Rubenandres77 is offline
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Long ago I downloaded some of your kits when the PDFs where open.
As usual, real life for those of us who work gets in the way and builds
get delayed. I actually started the triplane, but stopped because I
found the design confusing without instructions.

My desire to download any more of your kits was diminished when the
password had to be requested.

And upon seeing that you started making public those statistics about
precise location, age and date, and with messages like this, my desire
to download (or even build) any of your kits was diminished even one
more step.

So, what do we have to think about that people on the chart?
What's your intention in exposing them in such detailed way?
Agreed, you don't give names, but still is a lot of information made public.
Do we considered them "bad people" for not sharing photos of your kits
after they downloaded them?

Because, I mean, those statistics are useful only for you, none of us really
have any need to know who and where and when downloaded your kits.

Were those people informed their precise location, age, download file and date
was to be made public?

This is not the first time you complain about people not building your kits.
I still don't understand if you design just because you like to design,
or if you design just to get the attention and praise of others.
If it is the second you are looking for, then good luck! 99% of paper kit
designers never receive praise, comments or build photos of their designs.
But it seems to torment you not to have that kind of feedback.

Surely if you like to design just for the sheer joy of designing for yourself,
then you will keep designing kits no matter if people build or not.

You just can not control at all whether people build or do not build a
downloaded file. Or to write comments or send photos.

If you have already decided to stop offering the kits, then why not stop right now?
Why to wait for 4 more people to request password?
Or why not stopping with 200 people, or 250? or 500?
If you expect people to build your kits, and you like to receive comments and feedback
then why closing at all?
Keeping distribution open increases the chances of people building your kits.
But announcing that you stop everything does not increase the chances at all.

In any case, as much as I like some of your kits I still don't have, I have no desire at all
to be included and exposed in that chart. So I won't ask for a password.
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Seriously? I mean... seriously?
  #5  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:22 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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I'm late to the show, and a bit perplexed by the original post.

Are Ruben's comments accurate?
You are upset that over time, you have not seen the response from those who have downloaded your models?
And you are actually revealing information about those who have requested your models?

Take it from someone who always complains about response, this is nothing peculiar to you and your models.
I have shared over 500,000 free models in the last ten years.

Sure, that includes close to half a million Koolwheelz downloads
but it also includes more than a 1000 free models for test building, beginner builds and gifts for my friends.

And, I have yet to see even 10% of all those models built.

I don't retain documentation on all who have received these models...
even if I did, I sure as heck wouldn't be revealing detailed information on these people (to the public).

I've produced and shared models with people on the agreement that they be built for testing and photographic purposes...and been stiffed.
It happens.
You may not always know why, but it happens and you have to accept it.

Stop complaining.
Quit sharing your models or keep sharing your models...choose one option now and stop complaining.
Stop giving out passwords and compiling personal information on your fans.
You are not allowed to share this information freely.

Realize that 99% of Internet fans, are collecting free models and may have no plans to build any of those models.
Many downloaders are just amassing as big a collection as they can.
Many downloaders realize that if you don't grab it now, you may not be bale to get it later.
Many downloaders just want it because it is free...no other reason.
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:52 AM
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gerard1938 gerard1938 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubenandres77 View Post
Long ago I downloaded some of your kits when the PDFs where open.
As usual, real life for those of us who work gets in the way and builds
get delayed. I actually started the triplane, but stopped because I
found the design confusing without instructions.

My desire to download any more of your kits was diminished when the
password had to be requested.

And upon seeing that you started making public those statistics about
precise location, age and date, and with messages like this, my desire
to download (or even build) any of your kits was diminished even one
more step.

So, what do we have to think about that people on the chart?
What's your intention in exposing them in such detailed way?
Agreed, you don't give names, but still is a lot of information made public.
Do we considered them "bad people" for not sharing photos of your kits
after they downloaded them?

Because, I mean, those statistics are useful only for you, none of us really
have any need to know who and where and when downloaded your kits.

Were those people informed their precise location, age, download file and date
was to be made public?

This is not the first time you complain about people not building your kits.
I still don't understand if you design just because you like to design,
or if you design just to get the attention and praise of others.
If it is the second you are looking for, then good luck! 99% of paper kit
designers never receive praise, comments or build photos of their designs.
But it seems to torment you not to have that kind of feedback.

Surely if you like to design just for the sheer joy of designing for yourself,
then you will keep designing kits no matter if people build or not.

You just can not control at all whether people build or do not build a
downloaded file. Or to write comments or send photos.

If you have already decided to stop offering the kits, then why not stop right now?
Why to wait for 4 more people to request password?
Or why not stopping with 200 people, or 250? or 500?
If you expect people to build your kits, and you like to receive comments and feedback
then why closing at all?
Keeping distribution open increases the chances of people building your kits.
But announcing that you stop everything does not increase the chances at all.

In any case, as much as I like some of your kits I still don't have, I have no desire at all
to be included and exposed in that chart. So I won't ask for a password.
It is clear that
a) You did not notice that I only mentioned age, place and country so no privacy problems;
b) I was interested to know something about the way others drew their own kits;
c) You hadn't the slightest idea that the pdf's were a result of a freetime leisure and were published because 'someone might like somew of them'.,
If you had then you would not complaint about a missing manual or so.
d) I mentioned several times, on several occasions to be interested to find out why paper modeling wasn't a hobby-subject for youngsters although it's cheap and challenging -> both aspects were attractive in 'our' (clear to me now) time...

Anyhow, it's funny to get a reaction all of a sudden.
Thanks.
  #7  
Old 04-15-2018, 03:05 AM
gerard1938's Avatar
gerard1938 gerard1938 is offline
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Talking funny, funny, awfully funny

Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
.
Stop complaining.
Quit sharing your models or keep sharing your models...choose one option now and stop complaining.
Stop giving out passwords and compiling personal information on your fans.
You are not allowed to share this information freely.

Realize that 99% of Internet fans, are collecting free models and may have no plans to build any of those models.
Many downloaders are just amassing as big a collection as they can.
Many downloaders realize that if you don't grab it now, you may not be bale to get it later.
Many downloaders just want it because it is free...no other reason.
Dear David Outerspace,

Thanks for your quick and above all funny reaction.
Why such fun ?
The moment I switched to Cut&Fold the reason of your reply was clear to me :
a) Where are those 'my own models' amongst that immense spread of colorful commercial links ?
b) Apparently my dear Dave your are the next so called hobbyist getting money direct (web-shops) or indirect via their sites (you).

On which legal grounds do you have the idea that I would not be allowed to share which information ?
Be careful to point fingers !

Another thing, the 99% you mentioned remind me of the reaction I got from one of the guys offering to sell my creations.
Apart from the 10% I could earn from the price he thought to make I had doubts about possible inaccuracies/errors in my drawings.
He stated that 99% of the builders never finished their model. So...
Disgusting mentality.

Good luck with the distribution of your models.
  #8  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:04 AM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
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wow...you're an ass.

Name calling will only get you so far.

I don't know what website you have visited but its obviously not mine.
I have no clue what the " immense spread of colorful commercial links" is?
Did you stumble onto a Porn site by "accident"?

I think you are implying that I get paid by others to advertise on my website?
Once again...you have obviously visited someone elses website.
There are no paid ads...no ads at all..on my website.
Other than a couple of links to my other website and online store.
Oh, and an unsponsored link to ecardmodels.com because I support others!
Curious.

I never brought up legal grounds...I just stated my own opinion
...any info you collect on a customer or downloader of your models, you should NOT share
...since it is the right thing to do within this community.
Otherwise, its my opinion, you should not be part of this community.

Your last paragraph is somewhat difficult to understand.
Someone offered to sell your models for you? and only offered you 10% of sales?
And you're pissed off at everyone else for that?

How is this related to me and what I said about "Internet users collecting models for free and not because they wish to build"?
You apparently don't accept that the majority of paper model downloaders have a collection of files and models that they will never build.
Or you just don't like this?

Personally, I have a small collection of maybe (I'm guessing) 10,000 found internet kits.
Since my own designs keep me busy enough, I have no time to build others models,
but even if I wanted to, how do you think I could ever consider building so many kits?
So why have I downloaded so many?
Because, Gerhard Softspace, they are free!! [name calling rebuttal]

And yes, many many builders never complete models.
You'd find out these things if just plainly asked, instead of bitching and handing out personal info on people.
Unfinished builds include those that never actually get started, along with those that try and fail, get frustrated and throw away the model, or switch to another model.

Only thing I agree on is that a designer should not knowingly release a kit with errors or without proper testbuilding.
And why a distributor would suggest this to you is beyond me.
Every distributor I know wants to sell the best product to guaranty repeat business.

Yours is the "disgusting mentality" for assuming you are deserved something more than others.


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Last edited by airdave; 04-15-2018 at 07:28 AM.
  #9  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:09 AM
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Rubenandres77 Rubenandres77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1938 View Post
It is clear that
a) You did not notice that I only mentioned age, place and country so no privacy problems;
b) I was interested to know something about the way others drew their own kits;
c) You hadn't the slightest idea that the pdf's were a result of a freetime leisure and were published because 'someone might like somew of them'.,
If you had then you would not complaint about a missing manual or so.
d) I mentioned several times, on several occasions to be interested to find out why paper modeling wasn't a hobby-subject for youngsters although it's cheap and challenging -> both aspects were attractive in 'our' (clear to me now) time...

Anyhow, it's funny to get a reaction all of a sudden.
Thanks.

Gerard, actually I've followed you for some years, and I do know that the original motivation you had to design and release your kits was the pleasure of doing it. And also because I've seen your work and your posts
previously that I know that you rarely shared any previews of your designs here, or that you rarely announced the release of a new kit in the forum.

If I remember correctly, it was other members who have on a couple of occasions shared the news of latest releases of your designs, not you. Otherwise we would have never knew. That would have helped a lot to get people attracted to your kits and your page.

And I also know it is been already several times that you complain publicly for the lack of applause and the lack of feedback. It's funny that you don't come often to share your advances on the designs (there is a special section in this forum where designers can show their works in progress), but then you come here to complain about people not giving you any feedback.

And this is not the first time time that you decide to restrict access to your kits because you don't feel like there's enough interest in them. You have made it before. That's why I don't understand if you really made it for leisure, or for the applause. What one can infer is that you are just disappointed for your kits not being built, and that's why you close. Isn't that giving importance to the applause?

And why making it so prominent to mention the reaction and the communication with another modeler who actually did build a kit? It is great to have that kind of feedback. Sure, every designer feels great when that happens. But from your original post one feels that you are using him as an example to show "hey, this one person wrote to me, but all of you who previously downloaded and requested a password have not built yet, so I publicly acknowledge the only one who contacted me and punish the rest of the world and give up the show". And then in the next line you call "rubbish" to your own work. I don't think you actually believe your designs are rubbish. I believe it was a word that came from you because of anger and disappointment, or that you used that word as means of crying for attention, isn't' it? One should not write messages when angry, or sad.

I also said that if you really do it for the joy of doing it, you will keep doing it for yourself... even if you never release any kit again, you will still design new kits for yourself. And you actually are working on another Fokker. Aren't you? So you still design for the pleasure of designing, but decide to "punish" the modelers who don't build your designs by closing the downloads (and at the same time preventing other potential interested modelers to access them), but you say that you are not looking for the feedback. And despite closing the downloads you still keep your page open so that people can see photos of the kits even if they can't get them. That's confusing, Isn't it? But anyways, in the end it's you who decide what to do with your website and how to manage your downloads. And anything you decide is good for us if it is good for you.

Sure, I know (and I acknowledged in my message) that no names of people were given. Still, is a good amount of information that many people like me don't feel comfortable to share, or to see shared without one's consent. And again, if it were for your own statistical interest only, what was the point at all in sharing the table here again when it is already available at your page? But you never mentioned in your original post here what the intention of the statistics chart was, until you answered to my message. It was only stated in a brief note in your page/blog, not here. And not all the people who read this forum go to read your page.

Sure, it is an interesting exercise to learn how the paper model hobby is distributed around the globe and what age groups it attracts the most. But 96-100 people is far from a representative sample, and is not an accurate statistical procedure, given that it only studies a segment of population that is already biased towards free/airplanes/simple/digital/no-instructions/ kits, and does not account for people interested in architectural/naval/transportation/paid/printed/etc/ kits. Now you see? You have not given an answer at all to how the panorama is in terms of paper model fans in general, but only have statistics on a handful of people that happened to download your specific niche of kits. And that can not be extrapolated accurately to the whole complexity of the hobby and its many variables.

The visitors to your page do not represent all the modelers in the world. If the question you wanted to answer (as you write in your previous reply) was: "why paper modeling wasn't a hobby-subject for youngsters..." the methodological procedure and tools may not have been the best to answer that question. With that chart, you can only answer for yourself: "what age, and where in the world, do people who request my passwords are (and which kits of the ones I've designed are the most popular)?".

You have not the slightest idea about an on-line board called "4chan", have you? There is a sub-section there devoted to paper crafts/models and origami. When you go there you can know from what they write that they all are children or teenagers (at least mentally). So there's actually an interest in young people on the hobby. They just happen to be gathered in other places. And because: a) they're young, b) their skills may be below what your kits require, c) airplanes are not what interest them, and d) even if the like planes and have the skills they may not know your page exists... they don't go en masse to get your designs and alter the statistics.

But here you raise an important point: besides the conventions, forums, and random meetings, I don't think an effort has been made before to actually learn what the characteristics of the paper modeler community are. Your idea is good, and it would be useful to designers, printers, and on-line stores to know their target audience so that they can properly satisfy their needs and offer more quality kits according to their age/skill/interest/etc. In that sense, a statistical study designed in a way that it covers several variables would be really useful. Though I highly doubt anyone would like to see their personal information released so explicitly.

Many people never share photos their builds, a lot of modelers never give any kind of feedback at all to the designer, even if he's readily accessible or lives next door. I myself am building four different kits right now, but am not sharing any photos, and only twice or thrice (in more than 10 years) have actually privately contacted a designer expressing my comments. That's perfectly normal. Maybe we are not so open to express our gratitude in the proper way. And, that is another thing I can derive from this discussion that is worth to reflect upon: maybe we as modelers should be closer to the designers when we know they can be contacted. (And maybe designers could be closer to us as well.)
__________________
Rubén Andrés Martínez A.
Seriously? I mean... seriously?

Last edited by Rubenandres77; 04-15-2018 at 08:20 AM.
  #10  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:15 AM
Rubenandres77's Avatar
Rubenandres77 Rubenandres77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerard1938 View Post
Dear David Outerspace...
Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
wow...you're an *$$.
...
...
Because, Gerhard Softspace ...! [name calling rebuttal]
...
I already expressed my personal opinion on the subject above.

Now this message I write as moderator:

Please stop name callings and please refrain from the use of strong language.
It leads us nowhere, and this is a general public forum.


Thanks to both.
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Rubén Andrés Martínez A.
Seriously? I mean... seriously?
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