Rules for the Deep Space Game System

[cgutzmer]

yeah - might be a bit too fast - what does play testing show?

[Blackronin]

After the 3 games of yesterday I modified somewhat the rules. A new doc version will be uploaded today in the rules section above.

Movement suffered a great change. Not the measure of movement, what the ships move works very well in a small enviroment, but the movement rules were streamlined in a more compreensive and easy way to learn and use:

New movement rules:

Movement is made in movement units using a special movement ruler. The three numbers divided by a slash are the slow/cruise/High speed that a ship can achieve. For example, a Mars cruiser will have a Speed of 3/6/8, meaning that he is at slow speed if he travels between 1-3 movement units, at cruise speed if he travels between 4-6 movement units and at high speed if he travels between 7-8 movement units.

Turning a Ship. Ships have turn bands in their bases. Green for small turns, Yellow for medium turns and Red for Extreme turns. Different ships will turn differently.
Ships can make three Green turns per movement phase, or;
One Yellow turn and one Green turn per movement phase, or;
One Red turn per Movement phase.
They can make the turns before, during or after the movement. But between two turns there must be at least one movement point. This means that a ship cannot make two green turns or one yellow and a green turn in a row without any kind of straight movement between the turns.

Speed Up, Speed Down and Moving to a Halt: A ship that was moving at High speed in the turn before can only move at Cruise speed or High Speed in this turn. It cannot move at Low speed or Stop. A Ship that was moving at Low Speed in the turn before, can only Stop, move at Low Speed or move at Cruise Speed. A ship that was moving at Cruise Speed in the turn before can move faster, slower or maintain the speed but cannot Stop.

Point defense weapons:

Game play showed me pretty clear that Point Defense needed to be more accurate or the ships would go boom very fast.

To hit a torpedo or missile a PD weapon must roll 5 or 6 on a D6.

[Blackronin]

Added version 0.1e of rules. Changes in red.

[cgutzmer]

will check them out! :D

[lehcyfer]

1. I see the Hard Shell rule unchanged - if you don't like the +2defence, no shooting (I don't like +3) / -1 defence, all guns can fire at one target, then at least change the "chooses one ship" wording because it's completely unrealistic - if the ship rolls to port or starboard then the entire fire coming from that arc is blocked by shell, not just from one ship - that's easy to visualise.

I'd like the +2/-1 version - it's toned down, and the advantage is met with an disadvantage so it's not a no-brainer but an action that is very well thought tactically.

2. The movement. I like the turning intersected with movement - it's very nice touch. What seems lacking to me is the connection of movement and training weapons on target. When spaceships move the shooting is harder than when they are standing still as so to speak "sitting ducks". What I'd propose is to add modifiers for hitting, depending on the ship speed - it would be 0 for the cruise speed, -1 for High speed, +1 for slow speed and +2 for "sitting duck" stopped ship.

This way the ships would be avoiding positional combat. It's not a WWI! :D The spaceships should dart around trying to evade shots, get on enemy's tail etc., not get parked and shoot away...

As the stopping ship is very unattractive in this scenario, I'd add rule allowing stopped ship to turn into any direction it chooses (in other words "all your bases belongs to" green :P).

3. Weapons and firing arcs: the rule you've given is simple to follow, but it lacks precision - for example Mars cruiser have 2 stationary guns on port, 2 stationary guns on starboard, and 2 turrets with 3 guns each, covering sides and front - total 10 guns. This way it can realistically shoot in four ways:
- 2+(3+3) to one side, 2 to the other side and nothing forward
- 2+(3) to both sides, nothing forward
- 2+(3) to one side, 2 to the other side, (3) forward
- 2 to both sides, (3+3) forward
(taking into consideration that one turret can shoot to one arc only).
In your rule it goes away from realism, and it even allow to fire the side weapons into another direction - what the Sliding Towers are for, then?

What I proposed earlier was quite simple system of adding the turret guns in parentheses and rule that number in parentheses can be used only once:
- simplified, when both turrets can fire in one direction only: port 2(6), bow (6), starboard 2(6), stern 0
- realistic, when turrets can each shoot in it's own direction: 2(3,3), bow (3,3), starboard 2(3,3), stern 0.

I believe that such thought out rules let the player vividly imagine what's happening what deepens the immersion in game effect.

[Blackronin]

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

1. I see the Hard Shell rule unchanged - if you don't like the +2defence, no shooting (I don't like +3) / -1 defence, all guns can fire at one target, then at least change the "chooses one ship" wording because it's completely unrealistic - if the ship rolls to port or starboard then the entire fire coming from that arc is blocked by shell, not just from one ship - that's easy to visualise.

Yes and no. You have to think that although this is a 2D game we are simulating a 3D game with a lot of movement and ships in up and down places. But you are right, we can make it an arc and not a ship. I'll change that.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

I'd like the +2/-1 version - it's toned down, and the advantage is met with an disadvantage so it's not a no-brainer but an action that is very well thought tactically.

I don't agree. It's a bigger losing situation than a winning one, and these special rules are supposed to be advantages.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

2. The movement. I like the turning intersected with movement - it's very nice touch. What seems lacking to me is the connection of movement and training weapons on target. When spaceships move the shooting is harder than when they are standing still as so to speak "sitting ducks". What I'd propose is to add modifiers for hitting, depending on the ship speed - it would be 0 for the cruise speed, -1 for High speed, +1 for slow speed and +2 for "sitting duck" stopped ship.

This way the ships would be avoiding positional combat. It's not a WWI! :D The spaceships should dart around trying to evade shots, get on enemy's tail etc., not get parked and shoot away...

You might be right here. I'll play test it. At least giving a negative modifier if the ship is dead stopped we will add.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

As the stopping ship is very unattractive in this scenario, I'd add rule allowing stopped ship to turn into any direction it chooses (in other words "all your bases belongs to" green :P).

Unrealistic. Moving a stopped mass with directional thrusters is harder than turning a moving ship. Stopped ships may turn using the normal turning rules.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

3. Weapons and firing arcs: the rule you've given is simple to follow, but it lacks precision - for example Mars cruiser have 2 stationary guns on port, 2 stationary guns on starboard, and 2 turrets with 3 guns each, covering sides and front - total 10 guns. This way it can realistically shoot in four ways:
- 2+(3+3) to one side, 2 to the other side and nothing forward
- 2+(3) to both sides, nothing forward
- 2+(3) to one side, 2 to the other side, (3) forward
- 2 to both sides, (3+3) forward
(taking into consideration that one turret can shoot to one arc only).
In your rule it goes away from realism, and it even allow to fire the side weapons into another direction - what the Sliding Towers are for, then?

What I proposed earlier was quite simple system of adding the turret guns in parentheses and rule that number in parentheses can be used only once:
- simplified, when both turrets can fire in one direction only: port 2(6), bow (6), starboard 2(6), stern 0
- realistic, when turrets can each shoot in it's own direction: 2(3,3), bow (3,3), starboard 2(3,3), stern 0.

I believe that such thought out rules let the player vividly imagine what's happening what deepens the immersion in game effect.

I think that giving max number of weapons and stating what number can fire into all the firing arcs it's easier and much more elegant.

And the sliding turrets special rule makes sense. Not for a ship with a lot of turrets that fire to several arcs, but to a more milited ship. As I'll upload sometime in the future when we have more races to work with.

[lehcyfer]

I think that giving max number of weapons and stating what number can fire into all the firing arcs it's easier and much more elegant.

Easier - yes, elegant - no. Anyways I think it's a rule that should work, and is a good compromise between easiness and realism.

I really dislike stationary fight and love fast moving ships. But I overlooked the other side of the equation - to train weapons from a moving ship is harder also. So I'd add modifiers to hit from moving ships as well - like: cruising speed no modifier, High speed -1 to hit, slow speed +1 to hit and stationary ship +2 to hit. This way all the choices have it's advantages and disadvantages.

I like it better

And it's easy to use, for all ships have counters with speed indication already.

As for turning - have it your way, though I don't think it's unrealistic at all, simply don't want to argue over it - it's a minor detail.

[lehcyfer]

Ah, and one more thing - how's thinking about critical instead of explosion when trebling the Defense - with 6 on D6?

And with damaging CC (Defense 4):
-1,2,3,4 don't damage
-5-7 one damage point
-8-11 one damage point, one critical
-12+ explosion

Right? Or must it be over double (9-12), over triple (13+)

[lehcyfer]

Going through the new shiny ship cards I've noticed that the critical table:

Critical Table (1D12)

1 – Crew Killed
2 – Engines Damaged
3 - Primary Weapons
4 - Secondary Weapons
5 - Special Weapons
6 - Point Defense Out
7 - Diminished Agility
8 - Cargo Destroyed
9 - Hull Damage
10 to 12 - No Critical

Crew Killed – A significant part of the crew was killed. Ship response becomes more difficult. Turns are one color more difficult from now on. Green is yellow. Yellow is red and red is forbidden. Second critical has no effect.
Engines Damaged – Engines lose power with damage. Engines lose two points of movement per critical they receive.
Primary Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Primary Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Secondary Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Secondary Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Special Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Special Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Point Defense Out - First critical will destroy half the Point Defense Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Diminished Agility – Ship looses maneuver thrusters. Lose one point of Agility per critical it receives.
Cargo Destroyed – One point of Ship Cargo is destroyed per critic. Second and subsequent critics will destroy more Points of Ship Cargo. Cargo inside the ship will be destroyed randomly.
Hull Damage – Ship receives 2 extra hit points of damage per Hull Damage Critical that the ship receives.
No Critical - Although the hit entered the soft core of the ship, the destruction was made in less important decks. No additional damage.

is the same for CC and for DD, but the second don't have primary weapons or cargo.

I propose to state in the rules that if some critical is not applicable (either because there is no such thing on the ship, or the thing has already been destroyed), then player is to apply next applicaple critical above. To make sure that the first one is always aplicable I'd swap the 1 and 9 and rewrite the definitions a bit:

Critical Table (1D12)

1 – Hull Damage
2 – Engines Damaged
3 - Primary Weapons
4 - Secondary Weapons
5 - Special Weapons
6 - Point Defense Out
7 - Diminished Agility
8 - Cargo Destroyed
9 - Crew Killed
10 to 12 - No Critical

If a result cannot be applied because there's not such thing on the ship, or it has already been destroyed - apply the first applicaple result above the one you've rolled up.

Hull Damage – Ship receives 2 extra hit points of damage per Hull Damage Critical that the ship receives.
Engines Damaged – Engines lose power with damage. Engines lose two points of movement per critical they receive.
Primary Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Primary Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Secondary Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Secondary Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Special Weapons – First critical will destroy half the Special Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Point Defense Out - First critical will destroy half the Point Defense Weapons the ship possesses. Second Critical will destroy the other half.
Diminished Agility – Ship looses maneuver thrusters. Lose one point of Agility per critical it receives.
Cargo Destroyed – One point of Ship Cargo is destroyed per critic. Second and subsequent critics will destroy more Points of Ship Cargo. Cargo inside the ship will be destroyed randomly.
Crew Killed – A significant part of the crew was killed. Ship response becomes more difficult. Turns are one color more difficult from now on. Green is yellow. Yellow is red and red is forbidden. Apply once only.
No Critical - Although the hit entered the soft core of the ship, the destruction was made in less important decks. No additional damage.

[lehcyfer]

No votes against it so I suppose it's accepted :D