Backing up your model files...storage options.

[airdave]

Probably should have called this "backing up your digital model files"
but I can't edit the title on this forum.

Recently got a private question from someone about saving my models to a disc for safety (backup).
I answered the immediate question and gave some personal advice on backup solutions.

That discussion was a private one, so I won't reveal much
but the main concern was whether I had a problem with my files being duplicated.
Once you buy a model from me...you own it and can duplicate it for your own use.
You can save backup copies, print as many files as you like, etc.
Those are your rights.

I acknowledged that Discs are a good backup solution (CDs and DVDs).
DVDs being the best option since they hold the most.
About 4.5gb versus about 700mb (.7gb) on a CD.
Rewritable Discs allow to you add files...about four times I think, if you don't finalize the disc.
But I have heard they are prone to corruption

But discs can be damaged and they do naturally corrupt over time.
I think there are ideal methods of storage to make them last longer?

I suggested that "Flash Drives" sometimes known as "Thumb Sticks" might be a better option.
Considered a safer long term solution, they are now more economical and cost effective.
Smaller capacity Drives are much cheaper nowadays, and you can buy them in bulk.
The can be used countless times...rewritten over and over again.

I don't know how well larger capacity drives are working...I have a 120gb Flash drive
that I purchased recently, for about $20.
It works, but I have experienced some file corruptions.
I think it is because it is a cheaply made drive...I bought it because it looks like Ironman!
I think you get what you pay for...spend more, get a better product.

Another option is a USB Hard Drive.
I have a 500gb Passport by Western Digital.
They are small (fit in your shirt pocket!), cheap...mine cost $47 at Walmart.
They are fast....or fast enough for most applications so far...
and have an easy to use USB cable for quick connect and disconnect.

They do not have an internal power...so they do not plug into a power outlet, like other external Harddrives.
Instead, they get their power from the computer, via the USB cable.

This is very handy.
But it is also the source of a widespread problem with these Hardrives.
In attempting to repair a problem with a friend's WD Passport Drive, I learned a few important things.

My advice:
when you purchase one of the Drives...do not install the WD disc or software that comes with it.
Let your PC install the drive once it plugs in.
Check the contents of the drive (new or used)....look for the "Smartware" program files and delete them, uninstall, remove them from the drive.

Seems these hardrives require a very small amount of power (via the USB connection) to operate
but its a very precise amount of power to work properly.
Some older PCs and laptops can deliver fluctuating or low power levels through the USB connection.
If this happens, there is an inherent glitch in the Smartware files that cause the security (password) lock to be initialized.
The Drives become locked...password protected...an unknown password in most cases.
This effectively turns the drive into a paperweight.

Unless you can discover the password, you can never get into the drive.
Apparently no password unlocker can get in, because the Smartware system uses a "5 tries- auto lockdown" procedure.
You have to disconnect the drive from a power source and reconnect to start all over.

Western Digital cannot and will not break into the drives.
Probably because they can't, but I would assume they also will not admit the fault.

This problem has been discussed to death on many tech forums.
The fault is known to be in the Smartware program.

My Passport never had the Smartware files installed...so I got lucky.
Probably because I don't use any external programs unless I am forced to.
I plug devices in and let Windows install the drivers. I never put in driver discs or hardware related software.
So, my Passport has "never locked up".
And I love it. Handiest thing I own.
So, I recommend them...just don't use the Smartware software.

And for a handy backup system, try portable FlashDrives.

Only thing better would be Solid State Harddrives (I think).
But they are still a little costly.
However I will be installing one of those soon, as my main operating system drive.
The speeds are incredible!

Hope I haven't mislead anyone.
Just my opinions.

[willygoat]

This sounds about right Dave. The issues my wife had with her first external drive came from the software. I didn't install it on mine, or on her second drive.

The solid state hard drives are pretty cool. My laptop has a hybrid drive. Part "normal" drive, and part solid state. I believe the main system files are on the solid state to protect from massive failure.

[airdave]

I have heard...that short of an EMP shutting it down, a solid state drive can not crash.
Is this true do you think?

[John Bowden]

Dave.......... SSD drives are very similar to Flash/Thumb drives. The files are stored on non-volatile chips......... they do not need power to keep information.......unlike RAM chips.

SSD drives are susceptible to the same problems as flash/thumb drives in that they do have a limited number of write/rewrite cycles....... all-be-it it is a very large number, they do fail and usually at the wrong time. If you do use them for long term storage, make sure you access them regularly and never do a defrag on them, as this count toward the w/rw cycles.

Cloud storage from a reputable source is a very good option, as they are backup and you can get access to your files at anytime......... I use the one Google has.
john

[kahoody]

Thank you, all for your valuable advice. Yes, Dave - I have a high-tech paperwight too!

[Plumdragon]

Interesting topic! I'll wade in with my tuppennywurth.... All the CD's I used for storage are now unreadable, would never use them; an external hard drive (used for movies) is glitchy - I wouldn't trust it with my files. I would steer clear of 'cloud based' storage - it's all hackable. The best things are those little 'thumb sticks' or 'memory sticks' as we know them over here. Dirt cheap, masses of storage, and the only time in 8 years + that one ever let me down was when I unfortunately instigated a Windows system clean when the stick was in the USB and it got wiped!
This is not an option for many, perhaps, but my PC has all internet access (including Bluetooth/WiFi) disabled, so it'll never get hacked, and never get bogged down with all the pointless internet baggage, although I realise this is not a solution for anyone using something like Photoshop which as I understand is all internet based now.
And I agree with Mr Bowden, never de-frag or fiddle with the backup files, do all that before committing to storage!
There you have it :-)
Plumdragon

[rockpaperscissor]

I'm a bit leery of using hardware as a permanent storage solution for my model files - too corruptible. Instead, I created a gmail account which I use exclusively for paper model storage. Every month or so I keep the account active by sending an email to it with attached paper model files that I don't want to lose. The attached files are named in the subject line of the email for quick reference. It's free, the files are easy to retrieve, and I'm pretty sure that google will be around longer than me.

[flightsimmer2012]

never ever had any backups get corrupted and I got some repaints from over 4 years ago + all open perfectly
it might depend on the brand of cd or dvd too wouldn't it??

[airdave]

HAHAHA Plumdragon...
When Jennifer Lawrence's iCloud account was hacked, I don't think they were looking for her paper model files!
I think your models would be safe even in that situation.
lol

I too, am a fan of the small flash drives, for the obvious reasons,
but I remind you of one key point...
this applies to all those "glitchy" hardrives, as well as flash drives too.
Might even apply to writable Discs too.
And any other computer components.
You get what you pay for.

Its a fact that Discs deteriorate, but I think its affected by a lot of things.
Heat, direct sunlight, magnetism, quality of the disc, frisbee golf usage...
I use discount CD/DVDs for stuff that doesn't need to last.
I use better quality brand name discs for more important things.

I think its all about what you buy.
Cheap Chinese/ebay flashdrives are not as good as the brandname stuff sold right here.

Online storage is a good idea I think, but you are also relying on someone else to take care of your stuff.
I remember a few years back, losing a lot of online files when Megaupload disappeared.

Luckily, this wasn't the only online storage site I used, and I still had the original files on my computer.
So, I think the solution is multiple storage sites.

Even with hardware, I back up on multiple devices.
(My problem is not backing up often enough. I tend to procrastinate, since it takes so long to back up lots of gigabytes.)

[hirondelle]

Having had some years of experience with data backups & HDD failures I just want to throw some cold water on the idea of ram/ssd/hdd backup solutions.
Whilst nothing is guaranteed & you are very much at the mercy of the quality & cost of product used, multi-write systems are not the best solution long-term.

A good qulaity DVD (eg Verbatim or Taiyo Yuden) has an expected lifespan of 75 years if treated correctly, the high-end write-once stuff is readable for up to 200 years in theory. Of course what it was written on is important, a worn/badly aligned $20 RW may not be the best hardware choice.

Compare mechanical HDDs which are expected to last 3-10 years & SSDs which should last 3-5 years - but both of which can fail at any time - & the cost of recovery (if possible)
Pro recovery service from a HDD with damaged platters or dead chips or dead motor is approx $<200 per meg to recover.
SSD is equally expensive to recover IF you can access the NAND/RAM. The nature of SSD means recovery is harder/less likely compared to HDD.
Unfortunately thumb-drives etc have a low recovery rate, like light-bulbs - once blown, they are gone - along with the data stored on them.
So the $cheap sticks are cheap low lifespan products in most cases & are rarely used for any long-term storage in the industry.

I only use optical media. I figure that as that is what the banks do it has been tested in the most critical environment.
Banks employ cloud storage of course (server farms) but each server is remotely duplicated (usually a minimum of 3 mirrors) & each server (clone or not) is constantly outputting to optical media.

The key is redundancy & reliable media, which is often reflected by cost. Memory sticks are way behind DVD & BD when it comes to the cost/quality/survivability of the item.