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  #81  
Old 01-26-2011, 11:32 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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Contemporary films featuring the Po-2

Hirondelle's find of a Sche-2 film on Youtube made me search for similar Po-2 films. I found three really good ones, and another one which is equally good, but only marginally about the Po-2. You may want to watch them on Youtube (click on their headers), since they can stand a somewhat larger viewing size.




U-2 (Po-2) in combat. 9.48

For a civilian audience, to be shown in a movie theater? Describes, I think, how oldfashioned the Po-2 is in comparison to the most modern types used by the aggressor/adversary, and yet how it manages to accomplish both a lot of good (ambulance version), and damage (night bomber). We see the winter version, how the engine gets tucked in under its covers to keep warm between missions, and the engine plates in place when flying. Also the French division marking, in the summer version.

The aircraft had to serve under the most atrocious conditions, mud, rain streaming from the top wing of an uncovered Po-2.

Flying medical supplies (?) in the enclosed version. Wing pods, going on top of lower wings. Women pilots of ambulance version. Dropping supplies to insurgents during the Warsaw uprising (I think).

This film contains many clips from the two more comprehensive military instructional films below.




U-2 aircraft (Po-2) 1944 Part 1 / 2. 8.42.

This has got to be an Air Force instructional movie. Night flying. Winter camo. Some portions of very good quality, others less so. Describes the design and construction of the aircraft, starting with the date of origin 1929. Describes biplane basics - dihedral, stagger, incidence, span. What we see is the 1944 version of a 3D computer presentation, and it is surprisingly good.

Some really good close-ups of the Shvetsov engine. Fuel tank. 752 kg empty weight. 1012 normal t.o. weight. Starting the engine in winter, several people pulling the prop with the help of a sling of rope. Note no aircraft numbers on winter camo. Performance figures at varying altitudes. (to be cont.)




U-2 aircraft (Po-2) 1944 Part 2/2 8.42

(Cont. from above.) Range of aircraft 400 km. Winter version. Ambulance version. Close-ups of the gun mount, details of ammunition belt (interesting). Bomb racks under wings. Cut-out in wing for bomb aiming. A virtual walkaround of the aircraft, very detailed, and dated 1944!

Take-off distance 190 m to get off ground, 500 m to clear 25m height empty, but much more fully loaded. Ambulance pods, detailed instrucitons for how to load. Pods are screwed on from the bottom of the wing. Two strechers in pods, one in enclosed cabin, plus one male nurse in this case, plus pilot. Engine protection plates on, although no winter camo. In flight, very maneouvrable. Ends with shot of parachutist leaving aircraft (last resort when maneouvring doesn't help?).




Wings of Russia 9/18 Civil Aircraft The Air Carriers 2/5. 10:25.

Many transport aircraft, including a section about the Po-2 (4:17) as a transport aircraft, and as a crop-duster (5:03), followed by Po-2 three-seater transport (5:25). Also most fascinating about several lesser known Russian civilian pioneer aircraft from the 1920s-possibly early 30s. I wanted to share and preserve this link, and it'll have to reside here for the moment.

Enjoy. I did. And thanks to Hirondelle for the impulse. - Leif

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 01-26-2011 at 11:54 AM.
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  #82  
Old 01-26-2011, 04:31 PM
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Summer 1941 revisited: A plausible order of the event photographed

I just knew I wasn't done with those five colour slides from the Ukraine, Summer 1941. Establishing that all six slides belonged to the same event was a good thing. But I never felt I got the order of things right.

What if things in fact went down in the order of the official, original, numbering of the photos, but now including the single odd photo at an appropriate place? What would be a plausible interpretation of that order of events?

1. Invading German troops witness an emergency landing by a Po-2

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-1-169-0111.jpg "Bild 169-0111"

The Po-2 might have been damaged by ground fire or run out of fuel. Whatever the reason, this is a forced landing, very close to the advancing German forces.

As such it is a dramatic, and most uncommon, photo.

2. German soldiers inspect the abandoned Po-2

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-5-169-0112.jpg "Bild 169-0112" Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-6-169-0407.jpg "Bild 169-0407" (the odd photo included here)

We do not know what happened to the pilot and the possible other crewmember. Did he/they somehow manage to escape? Were they killed, on the scene, or while attempting flight? There is no way of telling. We only know that the aircraft has been abandoned, intact, seemingly unscathed. No marks of any fire or any other damage. Right?

Two features are noteworthy here. In the first of these two photos we see an armoured half-track, with a very prominent gun. In the second photo (the odd one out, from another photographer, remember?) we probably see the very photographer of all the other five photos.

Now we come to the fresh interpretation:

3. The German troops destroy the abandoned Po-2 before continuing their advance

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-3-169-0113.jpg "Bild 169-0113" Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-4-169-0114.jpg "Bild 169-0114"


The half-track fires one well-aimed round into the abandoned Po-2, after it has been examined. The photographer flinches from the impact detonation in the first image. The initial smoke from the detonation has barely spread. In the second frame the photographer has steadied himself and we can see a fire starting. Note that the half-track firing on the aircraft has moved into the frame in the second shot, its gun is still trained at the now burning aircraft.

4. The Po-2 burns out, while the German troops move on

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-bundesarchive-2-169-0115.jpg "Bild 169-0115"


The last frame is taken from afar, somewhere close to the original position of the first shot. The photographer has probably returned to his staff car. Other troops have not yet returned to their point of origin, and are visible halfway to the burning aircraft. Soon they will all leave and continue on their advance against Moscow, that fateful Summer 1941.

The Bundesarchiv largely had the order of the photos right from the beginning, but not the interpretation. The original description of the event stated that "the pilot took off again, and then crashed". This started me on the quest for a better interpretation. Then I got a bit sidetracked by the odd photo out.

Why bother getting this right? I have no good answer. A single event, largely meaningless in itself, in a maelstrom of events changing, even ending, the lives of hundreds of millions of people.

Perhaps that's it. Trying to impose some order on some delimited event feels like a comfort, against a background of that greater, frightening chaos.

In any case, I'm done with this event now.

Leif

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 01-26-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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  #83  
Old 01-26-2011, 04:38 PM
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Hey! My kit review has had almost 10,000 views!

(Cheers, Leif! I enjoy watching the workings of your inquisitive mind!)
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  #84  
Old 01-26-2011, 07:54 PM
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Wow, Leif, this is fascinating stuff. There seems to be a lot of variation in the details of even the "standard" Po-2 (if there is such a thing as a standard?). The ski mounts in the films don't look like the same design as the drawings posted earlier in this thread, or am I misremembering again?
I just pulled out my old MM '73 kit of the Po-2. It isn't bad as far as I can tell. It's much larger than the BPM version. It looks like more than the difference between 1:33 and 1:35 to me. What do you think?
Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-po-2-wing-comparison.jpg

I'm tempted to try my hand at recoloring and detailing the MM kit at some point. I think it can be built into a nice model, as evidenced by this build I found over on the Konradus site;
Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-image_p1010130.jpg

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-image_p1010149.jpg

Chris

PS. Keep up the amazing work! I don't think I've seen another thread so packed with info!
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  #85  
Old 01-26-2011, 08:39 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Yes. This is an amazing compendium of information on the Po-2.

With regard to your earlier offer to develop an amalgamation of kits and sources to be provided to a model builder who can prove thats he or she has purchased all the kits, it sounds like a fine idea to me and given the caveats that you have explained, I can't imagine that anyone could take exception to it (well, strange things happen on that sensitive topic, but I think you have bullet proofed the offer).

I do not have the skill to take advantage of your proposal, but hope that it comes to fruition and that a builder with the requisite skills (such as either of the Chrises, Coyle or Walas) produces a fine Po-2 as a result.

Meanwhile, it will take me a very long time to enjoy all the treasures fo this thread.

Don
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  #86  
Old 01-26-2011, 09:37 PM
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Ah! Never mind my question about the MM scale. I just looked a little closer and found that the MM kit is in 1/25! My eyes are definitely getting weaker in my later years, sorry about that. Now my question is what percentage do I need to scale 1/25 down to get 1:33?
Chris
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  #87  
Old 01-27-2011, 03:33 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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Thanks Don, for "okeying" my thoughts about sharing. And the two Chris's - I knew you were lurking somewhere back there.

Chris (jwalas) - those are nice photos of an MM model I didn't know about. The curved top part of the nose must have been puttied and sanded, don't you think? The scale, that is query I do know how to help you with - 25/33 = 0.758 or 75.8 percent or just simply 75 percent.

And I am sorry for missing out on your 2009 recolouring of the BPM model to a winter camo:

Polikarpov Po-2 Kartonowa Kolekcia 1:33-img_2837.jpg

Your recolouring could have been one inspiration for Robert Navratil to come up with the new winter camo - did you ever stop to think about that? Good job, if so! I only wish he would have included a couple of skis as well!

Cheers, Leif

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 01-27-2011 at 04:24 AM.
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  #88  
Old 01-27-2011, 08:17 AM
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cjwalas cjwalas is offline
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Leif,
I agree with Don about your sharing policy and I think it's one that should be adopted in the hobby in general. I found the scale converter at Bestpapermodels that someone posted (was it you?) and did the conversion. That really is a great resource. I'm starting to appreciate BPM more and more all the time!
There are more photos of the MM build at Konradus;
WWW.KONRADUS.COM - 50 lat Ma?ego Modelarza
It really is an inspiring build, especially the disc build-up of the engine. And yes, I agree that the nose has been puttied, sanded and painted.
As for my winter repaint of the BPM kit, the less said, the better! But I did wonder if Bob Navratil had seen it and realized that he could do a magnificent job of it himself. If so, then my botched repaint was worth it! Like you, I really do wish he had done a pair of skis for it.
The story of the Po-2 is simply fascinating to me. How so much could be achieved and attempted with with what was essentially an outmoded antique astonishes me. I think it is less a story of the Po-2 than it is about the bravery and desperation of the Russian people at the time.
Can you imagine Churchill and Eisenhower thinking that using a Spad VII (a faster plane than the Po-2) for bombing and rescue missions?

What are the dimensions of your 1/16 repaint? I can't help but be interested by this project of yours!
Chris
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  #89  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:05 PM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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Chris, I'm so glad you would at least consider having a look at the kitbashed winter camo repaint! As for dimensions, think double the size of your 1/33 model, and you will be almost exactly right.

I'm sure your repaint is what gave Robert Navratil the impulse to do his professional version, so a very good thing came out of it!

I do so agree with your thoughts about the plight of the Russian population, and the role the Po-2 had to play. It is heart-breaking, and a very strong part of the reason for being fascinated with this type.

Any time you feel ready, shoot me a PN and we'll work out the details.

Leif

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 01-27-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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  #90  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjwalas View Post
Can you imagine Churchill and Eisenhower thinking that using a Spad VII (a faster plane than the Po-2) for bombing and rescue missions?
Just had to make do with the Lysander, I guess...
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