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  #11  
Old 01-28-2020, 01:26 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Time To Build

Time for some construction photos.

Model is using a tube for the rubber band, thinking going to have to try the rocket tube idea, my tube weighs in at 6.13gms, is 5/8" I.D. x 15.5" long. Heavy!

Cut 3" off of the side of some 11x17 copy paper. Cut it to the 15.5" length needed and rolled it around a 5/8" wood dowel. Glued the final edge before installing into the model.


Tried to keep the model light weight. It is a prototype, it kept getting heavier and heavier with each design change/mistake made.

Printed on 90# Index Cardstock. Lighter weight than my normal 110 or 125# stuff. Model was printed on 11x17 sheets from some PDF that I created.

Construction photos:
At the Beginning:
Rubber Band Power-pict0155.jpg

Balsa Parts:
Rubber Band Power-pict0157.jpg

Wheels [laminate of two] :
Rubber Band Power-pict0164.jpg

Fuselage:
Rubber Band Power-pict0167.jpg

Rolled Tube:
Rubber Band Power-pict0170.jpg

Glue Fuselage:
Rubber Band Power-pict0174.jpg

3-sides:
Rubber Band Power-pict0189.jpg

Wire Main Landing Gear Support:
Rubber Band Power-pict0196.jpg

Tailwheel Wire [acts as a skid] :
Rubber Band Power-pict0197.jpg

Super Gluing the Main Landing Gear wire:
Rubber Band Power-pict0207.jpg

Partial Fuselage sitting on Main Landing Gear:
Rubber Band Power-pict0209.jpg


More photos to follow!

Mike
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  #12  
Old 01-28-2020, 01:45 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Time To Build

Time to work on the insides of the model. Once the fuselage is complete, only 5-parts left to assemble. Time to get it done.

Gluing the Rubber Band Tube into the fuselage:
Rubber Band Power-pict0214.jpg

Wheels installed, gluing engine cowling top skin:
Rubber Band Power-pict0224.jpg

Secret internal cheat item, wing root doubler printed and then installed to shore-up the fuselage side. Not strong enough once the "huge" wings are installed, should have used 110# Index instead of the 90#:
Rubber Band Power-pict0229.jpg

Loading the Rubber Band:
Rubber Band Power-pict0236.jpg

Close-up of Rear Rubber Band Mount Bamboo Skewer, used drill to drill through rolled paper tube:
Rubber Band Power-pict0248.jpg

Gluing Rear Fuselage Top Skin:
Rubber Band Power-pict0251.jpg

Gluing Canopy, note that canopy is oversized, once glued will trim excess with a knife before sanding:
Rubber Band Power-pict0254.jpg

Canopy view of area needing trim, both sides were identical after trimming, used 400-grit sandpaper at first, switched to 600-grit when the 400-started removing ink but not the edge needing cleaned up, 600-grit worked perfect:
Rubber Band Power-pict0263.jpg

Canopy sanding done, Fuselage Complete, Ready for Wings and Tailfeathers:
Rubber Band Power-pict0268.jpg

Simple design and construction. Started on Friday to change my little paint project model into this. Worked on a vehicle for 5-hours on Saturday, finished model design Sat. evening, built on Sunday, re-design on computer kept me busy while glue was drying.

More to follow, 5-items left to glue on!

Mike
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  #13  
Old 01-28-2020, 02:02 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Time To Build part3

Almost complete, time to glue the wings on:
Rubber Band Power-pict0270.jpg

2nd Wing getting the glue treatment. Basically slide the wingroot tabs on the wing into the airfoil shape openings (slits) on the fuselage side, once they are inserted, run a bead of glue down the junction to complete the attachment:
Rubber Band Power-pict0277.jpg

Wings installed, time for the tailfeathers:
Rubber Band Power-pict0287.jpg

Gluing Half of the Horizontal Stabilizer:
Rubber Band Power-pict0290.jpg

Gluing the Final Item; The Rudder:
Rubber Band Power-pict0301.jpg

A couple of final photos showing the model ready for weight and balance testing before flight:
Rubber Band Power-pict0309.jpg

Rubber Band Power-pict0310.jpg

Now for the rest of the story: It is weigh to heavy: 2.18oz before adding weight to balance for flight. The wings are not strong enough to hold the weight. The fuselage sides need help.

Will be doing some surgery to fix the wing issue.

Need a bigger propeller & stronger rubber band if this one is going to fly....It does a high speed taxi for about 12 feet on bare concrete inside a warehouse.

This is a first try, next attempt will see what can be done about loosing some weight.

Specs:
Wingspan = 23"
Length = 20"
Weight = 2.18oz [61.93gms] Used the actual Vans published numbers to scale my model: Foot = Inch (i.e., 23ft wingspan is 23 inch on the model).

Mike
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Last edited by mbauer; 01-28-2020 at 02:07 AM. Reason: Specs
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2020, 02:58 AM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Hot Rodding Paper Airplanes Again!

Already working on design phase II.

Estimate can loose 10gms fairly easy.

Then realized a quick weight reduction; shrink the fuselage and tailfeathers while leaving the wings the same size.

Already changing airfoil from 9% symmetrical to 12%. Slow it down and get more lift, the way it is now, if hand launched it would descend fairly quickly to the ground under power-wants to go fast!

Looking at using copy paper in certain places to reduce weight. Thinner balsa for the tube mounts. Will test new ideas for rolling the tube, rocket body tube -as mentioned, copy paper vs cardstock to see weight savings possible. I do have several different sizes of carbon fiber tubing that might work.

Ordering a 2ft wide roll of tracing paper for my kites, might come in handy for this as well. A balsa frame covered in tracing paper.....

Bought a competition rubber band 2mm prop shaft, bearing, spring, all kinds of machined stuff for $9.50 from FAI. I'll just keep adding power till something fails....

My shipment from FAI Free Flight just arrived, now have rubber bands, bearings and props to work with. As Don points out with his links, there are some serious competitions going on! Notice that there was a mention of a bearing in the paragraph above? Yep, real ball bearings in it. But really big shaft and weight issue.

Goal is to see this fly from a ground takeoff. I have been known to use "jet" power on some of my early models!


Mike
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Last edited by mbauer; 01-28-2020 at 03:13 AM.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:34 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwestforests View Post
Hmm, going to have to follow this and see what develops.
Used to have a lot of fun with those stick and tissue aircraft, loved Comet's kits.
Yes, Guillow's models were my favorites. Built two of these with rubber power: Lockheed P-38 Lightning Model Kit. Can't remember the company name, but had some balsa/tissue kits, that did things.

One model was a crop duster. You filled a hopper full of baby powder, the rubber band stirred it up and a scoop allowed relative wind to scatter the powder like a crop duster spray would look.

Well, the weight and balance was done without the load of powder. Flew fine, so 3rd flight filled the hopper up and let it go from the top of some stairs inside the house. Yep, you guessed it, the powder gave a nose heavy flight pattern with a vertical landing on top of the brand new 25" Mathieson color TV. The impact area included a huge cloud of powder getting stirred up by the hot breath of my mother, who was using all three of my names...The impact area did look awesome with talc powder everywhere!

Miss building the balsa and tissue models, partly why I do all these models I design. I do have a few of the balsa kits, P38 Lightning from Cleveland models, an Ornithopter, and a few small Guillow's and Comet models.

Mike
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2020, 12:42 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveB View Post
Hi Mike

if you're talking about a 'traditional' type of rubber powered plane, the first thing you'll need (as you'll probably know) is a pretty strong core to contain the rubber. I've only ever built one rubber powered model - many years ago from a commercial balsa and tissue kit. First flight veered to one side so needed trimming. Second flight a bit better. Third flight - maybe a few more turns on the rubber. Oops. Loud crunch as back end shot forward to meet front end. The crumpled mass was way beyond repair, but it was fun while it lasted!

This'll be an interesting challenge - designing a structure that's strong enough to handle the forces involved, yet light enough to actually fly. Good luck with it, will be following with interest.
You are correct, weight is the issue. Really want to stick to paper, but if have to, will use more balsa for internal support if needed.

Mike
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2020, 06:32 PM
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southwestforests southwestforests is offline
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Ahh, FAI, Cleveland, great names in the hobby; and it seems your mom thought your name was a great name too!
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  #18  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:35 PM
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Phase Two: 20#Bond Paper

Decided to see if possible to loose weight by using regular "copy" paper to make model. Plan was to use double layer of cardstock in certain places for support.

What really happened was using 1/16" balsa wood to stop the sides from drooping and try to minimize the warping of the model's fuselage. Lots of extra gluing for internal supports as the following photos show.

Tried to use cardstock to stiffen front & tail-end of model. Fuselage before inserting rubber band tube:
Rubber Band Power-pict0312.jpg

Here is photo showing internal balsa supports and the carbon fiber wing spar. Ribs are 110lb index cardstock. Plan is to slide the already glued wing skin over the ribs and insert tabs into fuselage like the normal build would be done, before gluing:
Rubber Band Power-pict0316.jpg

Right wing slid on real easy, only thing had to pop open the end of the envelope so it wouldn't distort the paper skin. Still had issues doing it this way with paper:
Rubber Band Power-pict0321.jpg

Couple shots, sorry about the bright light washout, only photos tonight before batteries died, re-charging now:
Rubber Band Power-pict0323.jpg

Rubber Band Power-pict0324.jpg

Paper did not work so well. With all the added extras it weighs more than the 2.5oz of the original, new one weighs 2.9oz.

Phase Three this weekend.

Thinking of using my balsa stripper and creating a wing spar the exact height of the highest point on the symmetrical airfoil the model uses.

Ordered some rather large Rubber band propellers, now need to fit a model to them....Enlarging the model from 24" wide wingspan to 30" wide the next build will use cardstock for the fuselage with balsa support for the wing and fuselage connections. This will drop all needs for cardstock internal support, the balsa is measurably lighter, and is 20-times stronger.

With the much larger model plan to use biggest rubber band size available to power, taking off from the ground won't happen, but looking to see if it will fly at all with rubber band power.

Mike
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  #19  
Old 02-05-2020, 10:48 PM
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southwestforests southwestforests is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbauer View Post
With the much larger model plan to use biggest rubber band size available to power,
Wonder what difference would be between one loop of that and a few loops of thinner rubber; how would the two compare in torque and in number of winds?
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  #20  
Old 02-05-2020, 11:04 PM
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mbauer mbauer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southwestforests View Post
Wonder what difference would be between one loop of that and a few loops of thinner rubber; how would the two compare in torque and in number of winds?
Great question. Will find out, thanks for the suggestion.

Supplies arrived from FAI, have rubber band in sizes 1/8", 3/32", 3/16" & 1/4" by 30 feet of each size. Super small props arrived, sure looked bigger in the photos. Ordered a lot number of 6" propellers as shown on these two models, from ebay, (50) arrived as well. These were supper cheap and are complete assemblies, prop, wire shaft, and thrust bearing mount. Probably going to downsize the model a little to allow these to fit the size better.

Bought some of the secret "Rubber Band" Lube, helps with winding and long life, gets rid of friction in the rubber band it actually works better. Going to do whatever it takes to get one flying if possible at the weight they are. Would be easy to get an electric setup.

Going to get serious about buying some tracing paper to run through my big printer/plotter and use balsa for the internals. Wonder how the ink will hold up to the dope covering?....

Mike
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