Upcoming models

[Don Boose]

Ryan - It is listed as 1/30 scale at Murph's site.

Murph - I can't purchase the three versions in color. The only link that works for me is the b/w version. Could be my computer, but I thought I would ask, just in case.

I am glad that you included then-Lieutenant Philip Rasmussen's 46th Pursuit Squadron, 15th Pursuit Group P-36A as it appeared on 7 December, when he was credited with downing one Japanese Zero (while wearing his pajamas with a parachute and .45 pistol strapped on). As you know, a P-36A in those markings is on display at the National Museum of the USAF (and was probably your model for your model): https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Vi...ss-p-36a-hawk/).

I THINK the olive drab/gray model (Tail Number 22/8191 - Army serial 38-191, aircraft Number 22) is also a Pearl Harbor Attack aircraft. This site provides a beautiful painting and says it is an aircraft of the 45th Pursuit Squadron, 15th Pursuit Group based in Hawai'i in 1942: https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/P-36/USA...-1942-V00.html I have not been able to find any other documentation on that airplane, but until someone finds evidence to the contrary, I am going to consider it to be a 15th PG, 45th PS airplane.

Joe Baugher says 38-191 was one of a group of P-36As "delivered as P-36C" and "crashed 5 mi E of Eagle Pass AAF, Texas Mar 18, 1943 due to engine failure. Pilot killed." 1938-1939 USAAC Serial Numbers

Incidentally, Ace Francis Gabreski was a pilot in the 45th PS, 15th PG, in Hawai'i on 7 December: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/ta...suit-squadron/

Keep 'em flying!

Don

[murphyaa]

The 3 colored versions are the ones I'm working on. They're not ready yet (gotta find somebody to do beta builds for them).

[murphyaa]

I need some help Don Boose. I'm getting conflicting info about the armament of the P-36 / Hawk 75. Specs say it carried the standard USAAC armament of 1 x .30 and 1 x .50 machine gun in the nose, with nothing in the wings. In the same article, it says it also had from 2 to 6 machine guns in the wings.

[Don Boose]

Murph - I'm on my way out the door to see the weekly USAWC Strategic Art Film, which is Waterloo tonight, but will respond later this evening.

Interim answer: Your olive drab P-36 (22/8191) almost certainly had two guns in the nose (one .30 and one .50 cal Browning machine guns, which was the standard late 1930s USAAC fighter armament) plus one .30 in each wing, since it was a P-36A delivered in the P-36C gun configuration.

Not sure about the silver one.

I am not tightly wrapped on Finnish aircraft, but will give it my best shot in a few hours.

Meanwhile, someone with greater knowledge than I (Ryan Short, John Bowden, Carlos, and on and on) may provide an authoritative answer.

The main sources I am working from are Page Shamburger and Joe Christy, The Curtiss Hawks, Kalamazoo, MI: Wolverine Press, 1972, pp. 90 to 94 and Joe Baugher's 1938 serials (see Baugher citation above).

Don

[Butelczynski]

I'm not sure about US used models but also of those in Europe had rifle caliber MGs over engine and 2 or 4 same caliber MGs in the wings.French had 7.5 MACs,Finn's had 30-06 Browning (I think it had something to do with Swedes suppling MGs and ammo).

I volunteer for test build of Finn P-36

Edit- I think US used planes had 50 cal+ 30 cal in the nose only. I don't think they were ever fitted with wing MGs. They had bomb racks but those were removed except for examples at some training stations

[Butelczynski]

Correction.3o3,not 30-06.303 ammo was produced in Finland too.

[murphyaa]

For the silver one, I'm recreating the one in the USAF museum, which as far as I can tell, doesn't have any wing guns


The Green one will get one set of wing guns


The Finny one will get 2 sets

(the bottom one)

Of course, I'm just putting on black dots, with instructions to use blackened toothpicks for the guns

[Don Boose]

Murph –

All your decisions make sense to me.

1. I think you are on firm ground if you make your olive drab and gray model (38-191) with two nose guns and one gun in each wing, although I think you should identify it as a P-36C (see discussion below). There is a photograph of this aircraft and two squadron mates in which the nose and wing guns are clearly visible. The image is from Shamburger and Christy, page 98. The caption is a little confusing. As far as I can tell, only the individual aircraft number was scratched out by the censor who, some reason, did not scratch out the individual aircraft number of 38-193 (“1”). As I indicated in my earlier post, I believe this is an aircraft of 45th Pursuit Squadron, 15th Pursuit Group based in Hawai'i in 1942.

The standard armament for the P-36A was one .30 and one .50 caliber Browning machine gun in the nose synchronized to fire through the prop. Most, but not all of the P-36s in U.S. Army service prior to the war had that armament.

But then it gets complicated. First, because units in the field sometimes modified the armament, so some P-36s had two .30s or two .50s in the nose. Second, because a number of P-36As were taken out of service and fitted with various combinations of armament. For example, one P-36A was fitted with two .50s in the nose and two .30s in each wing for a total of six guns and was designated XP-36E. One P-36A was fitted with a 23mm Madsen cannon in a bulge under each wing in addition to the standard nose armament. It was designated XP-36F. Furthermore, 177 P-36s built for the USAAC were fitted with the 1,100 hp R-1830-25 engine and designated P-36B. The last 30 of these (serials 38-181 to 210) were fitted with one .30 in each wing in addition to the standard nose armament and designated P-36C. Your model is one of these P-36Cs

2. I also agree with your decision to portray Rasmussen’s 46th Pursuit Squadron, 15th Pursuit Group aircraft with two nose guns only. You have the visual evidence of the actual aircraft on display at the NMUSAF. That actual aircraft is P-36A 38-001, the first P-36 delivered to the USAAC, and definitely a two-nose-gun version. Rasmussen’s actual aircraft was P-36A 38-086 (reflected in the fuselage number, “86”), which would also have been a two-nose gun P-36A.

By the way, the aircraft as it now appears in the Museum is posed with a mannequin dressed in pajamas, as Rasmussen was during his historic flight. https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195995/lt-phillip-rasmussen-and-his-p-36a/ Note that there is a link to an audio lecture by Colonel Rasmussen describing his experiences.

3. As I mentioned before, I am not too knowledgeable about Finnish aircraft, but the info in Shamburger and Christy (page 107) is generally consistent with Butelczynski’s input: the Model 75s flown by the Finns were H-75-A6s, which had two 12.7mm (.50 cal) nose guns and two 7.9mm Brownings (.30 or 30-03) guns in each wing. They were ordered by the Norwegian government, captured by the Germans, and sold to the Finns.

You (and everyone reading this) should understand that I am working from secondary sources and giving my best conclusions, not laying down eternal and proven truths. Every one of my posts that describe characteristics and histories of airplanes should be prefaced with the caveat, "Based on sources available to me, . . . ."

Sources in this case:

Joe Baugher, 1938-1939 USAAC Serial Numbers, available at http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1938.html

National Museum of the USAF, “P-36A Hawk,” available at https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196316/curtiss-p-36a-hawk/

---, “Lt. Phillip Rasmussen and His P-36A,” available at https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/195995/lt-phillip-rasmussen-and-his-p-36a/

Preserved Axis Aircraft Throughout the World, “Finnish Aircraft Manufacturers,” available at http://axis.classicwings.com/Finland/finnish.htm

Page Shamburger and Joe Christy, The Curtiss Hawks, Kalamazoo, MI: Wolverine Press, 1972, pp. 90 to 94 (USAAC P-36s) and 107 (Finnish Hawk 75s).

Don

[Don Boose]

I have been listening to Colonel Rasmussen's account of 7 December. He says, "the P-36 I flew . . . was armed with one .50-calible and one .30 caliber machine gun firing through the propeller."

Apparently he chose the aircraft at random among several undamaged P-36s (other aircraft on the flight line were burning).

Don

[murphyaa]

I'm working on a project to have a model of every aircraft present at Pearl Harbor, in the markings it would have carried. Sans the B-17, which John Dell has so masterfully done already.

This is what I have so far.
Japanese

Aichi D3A (Val) -Completed
Aichi E13A (Jake) -Need Model
Mitsubishi A6M Rei-sen (Zero) -Completed
Nakajima B5N (Kate) -Need Model

United States

Boeing P-26 Peashooter -Need Model
Brewster F2A (Buffalo) -Need Markings
Consolidated PBY Catalina -Need Markings
Curtiss A-12 (Shrike) -Need Markings
Curtiss P-36 Hawk -Completed
Curtiss P-40 Warhawk -Need Model
Douglas A-20 Havoc / Boston -Need Model
Douglas B-18 Bolo -Completed
Douglas SBD Dauntless -Need Model
Grumman F4F Wildcat -Need Model
Grumman Goose -Need Model
North American T-6 Texan -Need Model
Seversky P-35 Fighter Aircraft -Need Model
Sikorsky JRS-1 / Sikorsky S-43 -Need Model
Vought OS2U Kingfisher -Need Model
Vought SB2U Vindicator -Need Model