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  #11  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:14 AM
hetzer hetzer is offline
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I salute you for length of the reply, seems you have loads of time to waste

Its forum so I do comment on your comments and HEY, I am even disagreeing with you :D it is something so uncommon these days... AIRDAVE... DAVE... dont know where it came from either XD

with this positive point I will finish this discussion.

take care...
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  #12  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:23 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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And still the insults come...I don't think explaining myself is a waste.
No, I don't have loads of time to waste...but I do make time for this forum.
Is that wasteful to you?

Or, I didn't realize replying to you is a waste of time...I'll remember that in the future then.

"Commenting on my comments" is invited and quite acceptable to me.
Assuming what I really meant, misquoting my comments, or stating what I didn't say, isn't.
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  #13  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:36 AM
hetzer hetzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
"Commenting on my comments" is invited and quite acceptable to me.
Assuming what I really meant, misquoting my comments, or stating what I didn't say, isn't.
you took it as you took it, and the above is a part of forum discussion. hence ability to quote your words.

i have not thrown any insults and am not expecting you to explain yourself, simply was stating a fact that Poles are not snobs and are not accustomed to printing out simple(r) kits from designers such as yourself (footer of your profile...) and dont expect such stuff being highly regarded all over the world. thats actually being snobish attitude - all said between the lines

once again, i am disagreeing with you and will remain this way so accept it, dont say its an insult - finally take care.
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  #14  
Old 06-11-2019, 09:41 AM
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PacificWind PacificWind is offline
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As in this discussion there's no Polish voice, I'll throw in my two cents.
Let's start with the fact that in Poland, PAPER modeling almost doesn't exist. Poland is a home of CARDBOARD modeling. In Polish we call it "modelarstwo kartonowe". We don't have anything like "modelarstwo papierowe"(paper modeling). These two words just don't exist together in our language. Don't ask me why.
"Planet Earth is blue and there's nothing I can do..." quoting Bowie.

The cardboard modeling became popular here in the late 1950s and in early 1960s. Those of you who have ever seen Maly Modelarz kits from this era should know that these models are pure cardboard. And as these MM kits printed on cardboard were first, they obviously introduced a new word to our dictionaries: "modelarstwo kartonowe".

Sure, newer GPMs, Halinski and others are more like a paper but after all those years no one's gonna change the term "modelarstwo kartonowe" or introduce "modelarstwo papierowe". I think that would make a real mess here.

What's more, the majority of Polish modelers is very conservative. They only accept GPMs, Halinskis, MMs, Fly Models and other Polish kits. It's extremely difficult to convince them to try something new, different, from other parts of the world. But that's not everything. Dave, you said: "I know its Warsaw Poland...but they do have the Internet there, don't they?". Question is not really good. You should ask: "Do they know English?, because here's the problem. From my experience I know that most of people who're 50+ now don't know a word in this language. And the fact is that the majority of modelers is 50+, at least in Poland.

The last important factor is the scale of the model. If you want to find some customers in Poland you have to stick to that:
- aircraft in 1/33 or 1/50
- civilian and military vehicles in 1/25
- ships in 1/100, 1/200, 1/300, 1/400

If you choose any other scale for your design, you can forget about Polish market. Sure, you can still find some customers but sales won't be satisfying.

For the end I've left some thoughts about painting paper/cardboard models. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with painting and puttying. What is unacceptable to me is the use of resin or plastic parts in paper/cardboard models. And it's most unfair and irritating when those "hybrid" models win prizes in paper & cardboard categories.
Obviously, there's nothing wrong in making a clear canopy from the plastic bottle for you aircraft or using a toothpick to make a shovel stick. This is just a small and creative scratchbuilding.
But what's creative in buying a 20$ resin set of road wheels for T-54?
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  #15  
Old 06-11-2019, 10:28 AM
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Isaac Isaac is offline
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and here I thought I was doing a public service by sharing information about a huge model show/contest in Warsaw only to wake up to a "war of words ".


Where are the ooohs and ahaaas........ Wow, those are cool models...... I wish I built one of those......I am inspired now........



Come on guys. It is their show and that is what they do and the models they like to build.

I for one did experience all those feelings above. I love model shows.


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  #16  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:06 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Kacper....the language issue is an important one I did not consider.

I find it hard to imagine in this age, that anyone doesn't speak English.
But fully understanding English, and being able to read it, is a more important consideration.

I can see how sticking with what you know, and sticking with models published in the language you understand, makes more sense for some.

I never meant the "snob" comment to be anything of an insult, only to touch on the idea of repeatedly seeing a "european only" attitude from European modellers.
Even Japanese and Asian designers are poorly represented.

But I am tired of seeing the same Polish printed kits at every event...with the only differences being how much putty and paint is applied to obscure the original paper model.
Just not my thing, when examining and judging a "paper" model.


European events are often the only substantial "paper model" exhibits and contests we have to look at (and inevitably opinionate on).
So, they are model events...not Polish model events...to me.
The fact exists that we still aren't seeing nearly enough non-european models at these events ...and I wish there were more.
Hence my comments.

The internet and downloadable models defeats the argument that Polish printed kits are the only thing available to these folks.
But I do respect the issues of poor internet access.
Not everyone has access to the right technology, including quality home printing.
Another reason to like pre-printed kits I can agree on.

Being a snob isn't necessarily a personal insult
...it just means you support one thing, and boycott something else.
I'm a snob when it comes to good music over rap.

I still resent the accusation that I was only concerned with seeing my own models there.
While I always look for my creations, that had nothing to do with what I said
...or I would have included my own name in my comment!
Self promotion has always been an honest and upfront thing with me.
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  #17  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:29 AM
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KCStephens KCStephens is offline
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Thanks for the link Isaac
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  #18  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:12 PM
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herky herky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
sorry, but I'm not sure where my name was mentioned.
Not one word about buying or building my models.
I mentioned a number of other designers, but not me.
And yet, you know exactly what I am thinking?

Can you tell what I'm thinking now? What about now? Let me hold up the other hand...

Building only Polish kits over any other, or building only printed kits over digital is snobbish.
LOL You basically said that anything self-printed, internet found or not Polish printed is not worthy of their time...so, snobs.


No, Polish builders don't consider "print out" kits as piracy.
lol Thats a ridiculous statement that insults Poles.
...are you implying that Polish modellers are idiots?
I think they can recognize the difference between a pirated model and legitimate model.

"and are not well seen at shows like that"
sheesh...thats EXACTLY what I said...I'd like to see more internet digital kits! ?
I think you missed the entire point of my post.

Just because I sell models, it has nothing to do with my statement, or my opinion, or how I feel about putty and paint on paper models.
But apparently you can rewrite my comments as you like.
And your comment allowed you to squeeze in your little jab "as simple as they are", didn't it?

"It takes years of skill...."
Really? (I didn't realize, since I'm so new to this hobby")

Did I comment on anyone's lack of skill?
No...in fact I even referenced their skills, and called them "fine modellers"
I spoke only of what I like to see...in this case, less putty and paint.

Stop talking before you hurt yourself. And stop rewriting my comments.

And no, I was not aware this was a plastic model show.
If that is the case, and I judged some painted and puttied plastic models as paper, then I made a mistake.

But I assumed from the post title "Warsaw Poland 2019 contest-paper models",
and the sub-title "Babaryba 2019 - modele kartonowe",
and all the signs in the photos that state "modele kartonowe"
that only paper models had been singled out in this collection of photos.
Wow, castrate me for reading before I looked at the pictures.

sorry my comment was only saying that as majority of printed models are from polish manafacturers that would explain why so many of these brands sreem to overtake shows.didnt mean to start a sandpit squabble
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  #19  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:40 PM
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Isaac Isaac is offline
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It is their show and they can model what they want. That is the point.

Enjoy the models.


Isaac
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  #20  
Old 06-11-2019, 01:17 PM
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airdave airdave is offline
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The "snob" comment I have already clarified.
Might not have been the most friendly sounding word...but it suited the comparison.

I didn't say anything about how the Poles should run their shows, what they should build, or how they should build.

relax Isaac. I agree.
Nobody is arguing what Poles can do with their own model shows.

I voiced my own displeasure at not seeing more North American designers (my right to do so)
and I made this comment:
"It would be nice to see more digital kits...and some North American designer's kits....on those tables!!!"

This is a personal opinion, not singling out any one nationality or modelling group, or event.
Once again, a personal opinion, constructive criticism I think, and I'm sure an opinion shared by others.

But then Hetzer implied that I was insulting Polish builders just because I was upset that my models were part of this event.
And that started this whole furor.

I have a right to say that I am tired of seeing another "model" show filled with 800 Halinski kits.
I'd like to see a show with Nobi kits, Fiddlers Green kits, my kits, Marek kits, Murphy's kits.

No, I'm not inspired to build like them, Isaac ...in fact, its inspires me to build something different.
And not be so repetitive.

...
I never want to start a war...but forums are about discussion.
Some guys want nothing more than endless back patting and "best wishes".
"If you have nothing positive to say, then say nothing at all"

I don't really want to be part of that type of forum.
I want to learn things, teach things, discuss things and yes, even argue things.
I'm not talking about fighting...I hate that too.
If you insult me, I will insult you back...but I will try not to do it first.

But I want the right to voice my opinions, my feelings, and my suggestions
without being told I just want to sell models.
Trust me, I'll be honest about whether I am trying to sell something.

Isaac posted a link to a photo collection...and basically said "looky here".
If comments were not invited, then he should have said that at the start:
"Look at this...but don't say anything about it...especially nothing negative"
I'd accept that. It would be funny, but I would accept it.

But he didn't...and being a forum, I'm invited to voice my own thoughts positive or negative.
And in this case, I felt like I had seen this collection of models too many times.
(I know, I know, they aren't the same models as last years....but it felt very repetitive.)

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