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  #21  
Old 02-17-2009, 10:26 AM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Looks like you are on solid ground, Mike.

TechMod put out a decal set for your airplane that appears to be the same markings in your cover photo. I'm not sure how accurate their research was: Techmod Decals 72040 - Mitsubishi A6M2 Zero

Although not exactly relevant to your 261 Ku A6M2 Tail No. 110, here are some pictures of 261 Ku A6M5s captured on Saipan in 1944:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?topic=6891.0
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/airfields/marianas/aslito/index.html

I'm at the office and so don't have my reference sources available, but will take a look tonight when I get home.

Don

Last edited by Don Boose; 02-17-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2009, 11:11 AM
GreMir GreMir is offline
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Ok.
Based on the photos none of the planes have white bands on the wings. Techmod decals suggest white bands on the lower surfaces as on the plane from Charlie's link.
Was there any convention to mark the Flight leader plane with those white bands?

Now, to make things even more complicated I found this ???????????? - look at the first plane
I also located decal sheet showing 261st Kokutai Zeros 1/72 Zero Model 21 261st Flying Group

I think that I will leave the yellow band as is, add white stripes on upper and lower wing surfaces and paint front of the blades silver....
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2009, 01:45 PM
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Mike --

Some day, you HAVE to build a model of Tora 110 as a target towing aircraft.

That picture certainly raises some questions, especially since there are at least secondary sources (paintings) of the aircraft (Tora 110) without the red rear fuselage.

Have you found any actual photos of the aircraft? The artists and decal designers have to have been working from some source.

Don
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2009, 02:07 PM
GreMir GreMir is offline
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You DO NOT have to tempt me to do the red one :D
Maly Zero is a fairly easy aircraft to build so it shouldn't be to much of a problem. Recolor is easy too.....

I can't find any photos of Tora-110 :(. There supposed to be some photos of this plane in Gakken #33 and in Thorpe's IJNAF Camouflage and Markings of wwII (page 113) but I don't have neither of them
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2009, 02:29 PM
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I have Thorp and other references at home. I will be getting home late, as we have a lecture/film this evening (tough job, I have to watch movies), but I will check it out as soon as I can.

Doing a quick-and-dirty Google translate and a little puzzling through of the explanatory material that accompanies the "Red Tiger," I get the impression that there is some debate about the true colors of the aircraft. It appears that the researchers come up with the red color not from any documentary evidence or first-person account, but from comparing the tone with that of the Hinomaru.

More later,

Don
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2009, 08:14 PM
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Mike --

I have checked my home references and found an actual photo of your airplane (Tora [Tiger] 110 of 261st Kokutai) in both Thorpe and Hata et al.

Unfortunately, my scanner is not currently working, so all I can do for now is show you some rather poor quality photos that I took of the photos in the books and of a color painting by Don Thorpe that appears on the cover of his book.

The photo is of a badly damaged A6M2 (the rear fuselage appears to be partially severed) that is still in Japanese hands. It is surrounded by Japanese ground crew. So it is not a photo of a captured aircraft.

This raises questions about when the photo was taken.

261st Kokutai was established at Kagoshima on 1 June 1943. On 1 July it was assigned to the newly formed 1st Air Fleet, which would later be sent out to the Marianas. However, the move to the Marianas did not take place until February 1944. If the aircraft was combat damaged, the photo must have been taken between February and June 1944, probably on Saipan. Alternatively, the photo could have been taken at Kagoshima between June 1943 and February 1944, or at Katori, the staging base for the move to the Marianas in mid-February 1944.

As you know, 261 Ku was nicknamed the "Tiger Air Group." The tail numbers were either preceded by "61" or the kanji character Tora [Tiger], as is the case with your airplane.

Thorp identifies Tiger-110 as the group leader's aircraft (presumably the combat group leader [Hikōtaichō], Lieutenant Masanobu Ibusuki, rather than the air group commander [Kōkutaichō], Commander Taketora Ueda) and says that the combined vertical yellow stripe and oblique white fuselage stripe indicate a group leader.

The photo clearly shows the fuselage and oblique wing stripes (at least on the top of the port wing). The question becomes one of interpreting the colors.

Don Thorpe has interpreted the topside colors as overall dark green (Shade N1) and that is the way he depicts the airplane in his cover painting and in a side view painting in the book.

However, the rear of the aircraft in the photo really does appear to be a different shade or color from the rear edge of the canopy to the tail and that shade appears identical to that of the Hinomaru. I presume this is the basis for the “Red Tiger” painting.

So, if your airplane has dark green topsides, you are in synch with Don Thorp, one of the foremost authorities on Japanese WWII military and naval aviation colors. But if you ever decide to recolor the kit and build a Red Tiger, you can (in the absence of documentary or first-person evidence to the contrary) base your decision on the appearance of the airplane in the photos.

I await further discussion on this.

Don

Sources:

Photo 1 and info on the movements of 261 Ku: Ikuhiko Hata and Yasuho Izawa, Japanese Naval Aces and Fighter Units in World War II, trans. by Don Cyril Gorham, Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1989.

Photos 2 and 3 and info on the fuselage and wing stripes: Donald W. Thorp, Japanese Naval Air Force Camouflage and Markings World War II, Fallbrook, CA: Aero Publishers, Inc., 1977.
Attached Thumbnails
OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-261-ku-tiger-110-2-small.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-261-ku-tiger-110-small.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-261-ku-tiger-110-painting-small.jpg  
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  #27  
Old 02-17-2009, 09:12 PM
GreMir GreMir is offline
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Don,
Thank you very much - this is trully outstanding information!
Based on Thorpe's book I will keep the yellow vertical stripe on the fuselage and add oblique stripes on both top and bottom surfaces of both wings. I will paint the propeller blades silver as per Platz decals.
The rear fuselage DOES look like it could actually be red, but that will be for the future - I still have two more copies of this kit :D

Progress report.
Kit comes together very nicely, but formers tend to be oversized and require a bit of sanding to fit easily into the skins. The hunchbacked part over the fuselage guns require patience and careful forming to fit rest of the fuselage.
Attached Thumbnails
OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-zero-006.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-zero-007.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-zero-008.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-zero-009.jpg   OTDAEABT 2-Maly Modelarz A6M2 Zero 2000/12-a6m2-zero-010.jpg  

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  #28  
Old 02-17-2009, 09:20 PM
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You're making it look easy Mike! Very clean and neat work. Don do you think the rear of the aircraft is in the sunlight, it seems the front could be shaded by the structure?
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2009, 09:28 PM
GreMir GreMir is offline
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Glen,
This kit is easy comparing to what you guys have to go through...
That's why I removed myself from running for any prizes since I don't have a chance with well designed and printed kit

There was a big discussion on j-aircraft.com about this two colors on the Zero and the raised possibilities were shadow, fading of the paint, two different greens used to paint the fuse or even mating of parts from two different aircrafts... Nobody knows for sure and most of the plastic kits show the plane with rear fuselage in lighter green than the front.
Based on the photo provided by Don, rear fuselage could even be red as the color looks very similiar to the Hinomaru.....
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2009, 10:33 PM
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Some of those questions will remain unanswered probably. I think it is in shade and a contrast from that, and the red and green similar color density (ie colorblindness red/green most common). A color photo would be nice, huh!
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