Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

[spacerunner]

Hello everybody,

in the meantime my ARC friend and designer Joe has uploaded the new Set of 20 in flat orientation to check the pricing.


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

But that's only half the battle. Unfortunately that's not the most favorable orientation of the set for printing, what fairly surprised me, because I explained it to him in a PM and email exactly on the basis of this SW image, modified by me.


Source: shapeways.com (Mitchell Jetten)

Because important is not only the flat arrangement of the shoes in the respective set, but in particular the flat orientation of the set for printing, and the designer has to set the 3D printing Orientation for FUD/FXD himself on the 3D Tools page before uploading the 3D-File to make sure that it is printed as well this way.

When this is not done, Shapeways will orientate the model at the production department in a way it will be printed most efficient, whatever SW may understand by that.

Therefore pressing the red button 'Save Orientation' ist very important before uploading any 3D models.

Then the preferred orientation will be used everytime for printing the model.

Therefore I asked him, to select this flat orientation for the new Set of 20 in the 3D Tool and to save it once and for all.

In the last 14 days I have intensively exchanged with Mitchell Jetten (SW customer sevice) about this problem of the different orientation of the parts during printing. Namely, the support structure (yellow) depends on this orientation in the printing process, which is illustrated by these pictures in every possible orientation of the set.

This orientation corresponds to the previous set arrangement with upright standing shoes.


Source: shapeways.com (Mitchell Jetten) and following pics

In this arrangement with upright standing Track shoes, one has indeed less support wax, but in places which are difficult to clean, such as e.g. the grooves on the surface and between the joint parts. In addition, the lower side is touched by the support wax and has a rough surface, while the upper side is not touched by the wax, and therefore is smooth.

Therefore, our 3D expert (Half-Dead) would take the flat set arrangement with sprues, because here the support wax touches almost exclusively the tread, which is smooth and therefore easy to clean (left pic), while the top with the grooves does not come into contact with the wax. Therefore, the reverse arrangement (right pic) would be conceivably unfavorable.



And for the sake of completeness, here is the upright arrangement of the shoes, which is also out of the question.



One should note that in theses pics the sprue was removed, so these examples are only applicable when one orders the shoes separately.
On a sprue much more support could be needed once shoes are stacked on top of each other.





While the two upper shoes look good, the underlying ones are totally covered in wax as wax must be added on each shoe to support the overlying shoes. But that would mean immense subsequent cleaning effort.
And Joe's set arrangement with upright standing shoes would look similar like this, and therefore he should select and save the flat orientation.

[spacerunner]

Hello everybody,

because there was going on here something strange, I wanted to get to the bottom of things and wanted to know from my friend, if he has selected a different Print orientation for the last Set of 20 (Flat Ori) than at the first set. Because there must be a reason why my first two Sets of 20 so far are displayed like all other offers in a flat set arrangement and the last set since then in an upright aarrangement, what I have also asked SW.

Then Mitchell Jetten suggested that I could order the last Set of 20 (Flat Ori), then he could see if this orientation was saved, if not, he would cancel the order, which I then have done and told him the order number.

And so it came about that he had canceled the order because the designer was not determined orientation, which is why SW can not guarantee the printing orientation. Great right?

Therefore, I should make sure that my friend sets this set orientation step by step and saves it.

Of course, he was very surprised about that and he said that he did that several times, what he could show with several screenshots, so that the confusion was perfect.

Opening the model in 3D Tool:



Selection of the material Smooth Fine Detail Plastic (FUD):



Set 3D Printing Orientation:

[img width=640 height=372]https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1872/29606228687_64f09ff95a_c.jpg[/img]

Save Orientation:




Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

After my friend had informed SW about it, Mitchell Jetten then backed down and said that I could now order the Set of 20 (Flat Ori).

That in contrast to the offer still the flat lying set is displayed, is apparently a system bug, as SW had to admit. And that after three weeks controversial discussion ...

Since my friend Joe had convinced me more, I finally ordered this set, even though its upright position made me doubt.


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

Since I still had lack of clarity about the expected wax residuals of the set, I asked my friend to send me a Screenshot of the location of the Support Material color], which can be displayed in the 3D Tool, as indicated by our expert Half-Dead.

He did that as well, and this screenshot provided the final clarity and at the same time proof that he had actually saved the flat orientation before the upload.



And that is exactly the desired support wax arrangement, which facilitates the final ultrasonic cleaning.

Then I asked Joe to upload the set of 52 also with the flat orientation, what he has done in the meantime, as these pictures show.

[spacerunner]

Surprisingly, this 52 Flat Ori-Set in the SW shop is also displayed in an upright position, as the Set of 20, which does not bother me anymore.


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

It would be interesting now to see the support structure of the first two Sets of 20 with the upright standing shoes,


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

whereby I suspect that this should look something like this.


Source: shapeways.com (Mitchell Jetten)

And as this picture shows, I once again had the right nose.



Thereby the annoying problem with the supporting wax would be now also clarified, and if the ordered 20 Flat Ori-Set looks good, then I can order eight of these 52 Flat Ori-Sets, and with a total of 476 Track Shoes then I would have more than enough for the Crawler.

[Revell-Fan]

Wow, it looks like you need a PhD in 3D printing to get these things right. Hats off! I'm looking forward to seeing the results. Keeping my fingers crossed!

[spacerunner]

Thanks Marcell,
you are right, the discussion with Shapeways' customer service is quite stressful like high-speed idling and slowly makes me nervous.

[spacerunner]

Hello friends,

but now the confusion gets totally crazy, because I just received the message from SW that the Set of 52 - Flat Ori would not be printable. I want to spare you the bla-bla-bla explanation because it is bland and trivial.

Unfortunately, we are unable to manufacture Crawler Track-1-160-scale-Set of 20-Flat Ori.



I should contact the designer and discuss with him what to do next.

While the previous Set of 20 has disappeared from the online store, there is now a Set of 20-Flat Ori but only in FXD for 6,39 €, whereas the previous set with upright shoes did cost 6,02 €.



In this offer, both the set and the shoes are lying flat.

Strange in this context is that SW had pointed out in the meantime that the Set of 52 - Flat Ori would be printable only in FUD, but not in FXD,


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

what I did not care, because I wanted everything in FUD anyway.



Now my friend Joe has just told me that SW has informed him that the set would not be printable because the walls would be less than 0.3mm, but what should not be true, which proves his inspection once again.


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

This can not be the true reason, because SW has printed the previous two sets with 0,3 mm wall thickness, after it had been changed in advance from 0,2 to 0,3 mm.

One could almost think, as if they want to sell us for stupid, so that is slowly becoming a nightmare ...

[Revell-Fan]

Apparently SW is losing track..!


Kidding aside, it would be funny if it wasn't so strange. Maybe it was a glitch and the tolerances of SW reduced the 0.3 mm to something between 0.2 and 0.3 mm which produced an automated reject. Or something went wrong and there in fact is one single area of 0.29xxx mm thickness. Hmm.

[spacerunner]

Maybe you're right, but maybe not too ...
The problem is only, they say it today this way, and tomorrow that way ...

It's almost like gamble, or trial and error ...
Yesterday I got an email from SW that this is the real issue ...


Source: shapeways.com (Mitchell Jetten)

The strange thing is that they've already printed this out twice successfully and without complaint. The only difference being the orientation of the shoes on the sprue.

While the stacked set arrangement is printable,


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

the flat one is not printable ...


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)

That may understand, who wants ...
Maybe their printers are also weather-sensitive like my wife ...

[Revell-Fan]

Oh boy, that was eeeeeevil - but good!

[spacerunner]

Donald Trump would say: Fake News!