PaperModelers.com

Go Back   PaperModelers.com > Card Models > Model Builds > PASA, Paper Aeronautical and Space Administration

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1721  
Old 07-15-2018, 07:17 AM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Hello everybody,

at the end of May, my friend Mike (crowe-t) from the ARC Forum asked me, if I could ask Michael Key whether he could also model an Intertank (WSF) for his Airfix STS-135 Shuttle Stack, for what he would have to modify my STS 6-IT only slightly.

Since I thought that it would be quite feasible, I asked Michael Key and tried to make it tasty for him, since this would be a useful extension of his store offer and certainly would find even more buyers, since most Shuttle modeler rather would build the later missions.

To do this, he would actually only need to remove some details such as the PAL ramps with the Cable trays, as well as the circumferential rings in the Thrust panels, since there were only Ribs, and needs modify the Access door.

These changes should make it relatively easy for him to model an IT version for the Super Lightweight Tanks (SLWT) of the later missions from STS-91 (1998), since he has already done the main work.

Here is a photo of the ET-138, which was flown at the STS-135, where one can see some of these details,


Source: NASA

whereby the Access door in the SLWTs was only closed by a Graphite Composite plate ,


Source: NASA

as can be seen here on the ET-122 at the STS-134.


Source: NASA

After Michael Key had agreed to it and I had discussed with Mike some detail changes back and forth, it was time, and so you can now after the Airfix LWT-IT (1:144)


Source: shapeways.com

also order the Airfix SLWT-IT (1:144) both in WSF and FUD at Shapeways


Source: shapeways.com

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)

Last edited by spacerunner; 07-15-2018 at 07:51 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #1722  
Old 07-15-2018, 04:38 PM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Hi everyone,

since I now know from two experts that I chase after no phantom, now a next step for the implementation of this wave-like ring structure on model ET.

As I've said already, there are these two discussed possibilities, either by a 3D printing, if Michael Key finally would have time and desire, or by Scratch-building.

Since Michael Key for his 3D model but already should know about what shape and especially what dimensions should have this wavy line, I have now tried to draw a first scetch.

Starting from the Peak-to-Valley width of about 5'' = 127 mm = 0,9 mm (1:144) specified by Vincent Morales , which roughly matches my previous estimates from photos, I have sketched the following profile (1:2), which should show this wavelike foam structure, how I could imagine it.



Considering that the average SOFI thickness on the ET is approx. 1'' (25,4 mm) , I have drawn a profile whose peak height I assumed with about 0,5'', which with approx. 0,1 mm in 1/144 would be very flat.
Now it would be important to find out how large this peak-height actually was at that time in the foam insulation.

Let's see if or how Craig Capdepon or Vincent Morales will comment on that, since they should actually remember it.

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
  #1723  
Old 07-16-2018, 11:09 AM
Revell-Fan Revell-Fan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Vreden
Posts: 1,228
Total Downloaded: 1.39 GB
That thing will fly for real when it is ready. Amazing progress, Mani!
Reply With Quote
  #1724  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:43 AM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Thanks Marcell,
wait and see and stay tuned.

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
  #1725  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:44 AM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Hello everybody,
unfortunately, there is no feedback from the two experts so far, whyever ...

If I understood Vincent Morales right, that the Peak-to-Valley 5'' is the spacing from the top of the wavy pattern to the deepest point of the valley, then the Peak-to-Peak is the spacing from one peak to the next one.

But somehow my 7th sense tells me that his 5'' can't be quite right, maybe it's a bit to large, or I'm misinterpreting his term Peak-to-Valley so far. 
That's why I took a different approach, because ultimately for scratch-building it is crucial, how many rings were on the ET, whereby the difficulty is only to determine this number as accurately as possible, wherefore I used these two Hi-Res photos.

This old photo from the initial phase of the shuttle program I wanted to evaluate anyway, because one can see this wavy ring structure on the LH[sub]2[/sub] tank quite clearly.

And meanwhile I also know that this photo shows the rollout of the first LWT ET-8 for Challenger's STS-6.


Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)

However, especially in the front area at the beginning of the LH[sub]2[/sub] tank, this photo is simply too fuzzy for an exact counting of the rings, whereby this is made even more difficult by the foreshortening.

Therefore, I have used another photo for this, where one has almost a direct view of this area, namely this one of the discarded ET-121 (STS-114), in which one in Hi-Res-Zoom with a little imagination and a sharp eagle eye it is also possible to count out the rings in this front area.


Source: NASA

For better orientation on the tank, I have numbered the 17 Ice/Frost Ramps, in order to find the exact point for continuing the count up to the Aft Dome.

And then the counting went off, but first of all, I had to attach a few markings in order not to constantly have to re-count, when my eyes had gone on strike and lost the orientation.


Source: NASA

And at this first count I came to 64 rings at the rear end of the Ice/Frost Ramp No. 7, although I have to admit that the counting between the first two ramps was extremely difficult.

And then it went on in the other photo exactly at this point Ramp 7 (64), where the count was now increasingly easier.




At the end of the tank I came to a total of 132 Rings.
What is following now from this for the width of the rings, which is actually the center distance of Valley-to-Valley?

Luckily, this calculation is now quite simple if I refer it directly to the length of the Airfix-LH[sub]2[/sub] tank (without Aft Dome), which is 170 mm, whereby I rounded the number of rings to 130 for the sake of simplicity:

170 mm:130 = 1,3 mm per ring, which would be extrapolated 187 mm, which means 7,4'' at the original ET, which is less than the Peak-to-Peak distance (10'') by Vincent Morales.

Now only the Peak height is still missing. But with the distance of 1,3 mm I can now at least determine the best width of the stripes and their distance for my test, possibly 0,75 mm instead of 1 mm with a 0,5 mm tape as a spacer, what I'm going to try on this ET dummy (Ø 50 mm), which I bought at the hardware store.



Let's see what comes out of it ...

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
  #1726  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:59 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 833
Total Downloaded: 143.14 MB
Hi Manfred

I think you have made great "inroads" into the SOFI feature and it feels that you are almost there to a complete solution. As ever it is great being able to follow your progress.

Regards

Kevin
__________________
Normally the most advanced tech I use is a pencil.
Reply With Quote
  #1727  
Old 07-18-2018, 11:56 AM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Thanks Kevin for yout nice comment,

slowly I'm getting closer to the matter, but the Scratch variant of this SOFI texture could become a bit of a hassle, but I will test it.

BTW, I have just admired your 1:24 Saturn V, which is really very impressive.

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
  #1728  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:21 AM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Hello Friends of the Rings,

since we were just now dealing with counting the rings on the LH2-Tank, here comes with the Aft Dome the still missing ET end.

As the trained eye can see on this photo, which has already been shown several times, the rings on the Aft Dome are significantly wider than those on the front part of the LH2-Tank, although their curvature is barely visible, even in Hi-Res.


Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Jester)
Nevertheless, I tried to count these rings, whereby I came only with difficulty to 14.



With the reference dimension of the front ring width of 1,3 mm, this results in a width of the rings on the Aft Dome of around 2 mm. The arrow in this picture indicates a small, but fine detail, which lies on the 4th ring, but what can be identified only in the Hi-Res-Zoom.

Therefore, here again in the left part of the picture an enlargement can be seen, on which one can recognize the number 73. And this number reminded me of the already multiply shown photo in the right part of the ET-8 of the STS-6, on which one can see the bulge of the Rings on the Aft Dome very nice, whereby the number 73 is also sitting on the 4th ring.



Thereby the counting of the rings is finished, at least on the LH2-Tank.

But as we know by now, on the LO2-Tank there are also such rings, or bands after my earlier terminology,


Source: georgesrockets.com

which I'm already in the end of May in my Reply #1685 was starting to count,


Source: retropaceimages.com (STS-6)
what I can now check again from today's perspective, because this would be the starting point for Michael Key's 3D modeling, if he would get still involved with it.

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
  #1729  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:38 AM
Wad Cutter's Avatar
Wad Cutter Wad Cutter is offline
Eternal Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Pacifica, Calif. near the coast over looking the Pacific Ocean near San Francisco
Posts: 1,872
Total Downloaded: 842.88 MB
It's very hard for my old mind such as it is that with that and the two booster rockets on both side of the shuttle take all that all the weight and being able to launch into orbit. That huge tank being filled with rocket fuel there must have been a killer amount of weight. Amazing to me and you have done a incredible job of this model and it's take so mush time. Also amazing. Please don't stop. Thank you for sharing. wc

Just one question-is 07-29-2013, 01:15 PM the first day you started working on this model or the first day you started posting about it. I would like to post this on my FaceBook if you don't mind. Thank you. wc
Reply With Quote
  #1730  
Old 07-20-2018, 02:52 PM
spacerunner's Avatar
spacerunner spacerunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Filderstadt, Germany
Posts: 2,181
Total Downloaded: 5.57 MB
Thanks Wad for your interest,

yeah, those were the good old days my friend ...

At the end of 2011 was the Lift-off to my STS-6 long-term project, which was my first Real Space Modeling Project. 2013 I started posting in papermodelers.com.
Please send me a link to your facebook site, then I can see what you are doing there.

__________________
Greetings from Germany
Manfred
Under construction:
Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Parts of this site powered by vBulletin Mods & Addons from DragonByte Technologies Ltd. (Details)
Copyright © 2007-2023, PaperModelers.com