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  #21  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:10 AM
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You can get the "Orion" as a free download by AXM as a part of the Delta IV Heavy ...
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Boeing CST 100...-dscf8395.jpg  
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:41 AM
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And also here is another download of Ton...


http://www.jleslie48.com/orion
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  #23  
Old 02-11-2020, 05:53 AM
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I hope Ton is still out there. I loved His work.

Someday I will revisit real space models. It's hard to get excited after the last admin. burned our ships in the harbor and Elon scammed away so much of our tax funding purchasing/repackaging/re branding old and start-up tech., (Tony Stark wannabe..... more like the Great and powerful OZ). I see dead people if he is not stopped. Daddy always said it's safer to use other peoples money to finance Your dreams. I'll stop before the uninformed flame me with propaganda. Orion is still a gold star as is Starliner, (even with the software issue). I do hope we have future subjects to base our projects on, but not at all banking on the toasted marshmallow dragon joke.

Sorry just had to vent,

Good Luck and Godspeed on Your projects.
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Old 02-11-2020, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surfduke View Post
I hope Ton is still out there. I loved His work.

Someday I will revisit real space models. It's hard to get excited after the last admin. burned our ships in the harbor and Elon scammed away so much of our tax funding purchasing/repackaging/re branding old and start-up tech., (Tony Stark wannabe..... more like the Great and powerful OZ). I see dead people if he is not stopped. Daddy always said it's safer to use other peoples money to finance Your dreams. I'll stop before the uninformed flame me with propaganda. Orion is still a gold star as is Starliner, (even with the software issue). I do hope we have future subjects to base our projects on, but not at all banking on the toasted marshmallow dragon joke.

Sorry just had to vent,

Good Luck and Godspeed on Your projects.
So.... If we disagree with your analysis, we are "uninformed"? Good to know....
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  #25  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:44 AM
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I would have to say yes uniformed is a polite way to say it. And I hope we can agree to disagree. Musk is a scammer not a visionary. I have had many discussions with folks at the cape and with industry leaders. I do not just attack to attack. I have seen first hand how he manipulated the last admin. into funding his ventures. I know how dirty some of those deals got made. Boeing and the other industry dino's are not clear in the backroom deal department but. musk is a wolf in sheep clothing. Bezos is the one to watch. He may not be the working mans friend but his vision and path forward appear to be safer and much better planned. I am for innovation and commercialization. But private funding should by definition be private. Space x is a paper tiger that is going to fold in and kill folks in its damn the torpedoes development attitude. Look at the star-ship toy that we are told will shuttle to the moon and back and belly flop thru the atmosphere at 24,000 mph. Yeah that is gonna be a light show. Innovation is good stagnation is bad. Innovation at the expense of safety is unacceptable. The propaganda machines are in full swing on both sides of the old space / new space arguments. I can only comment on the facts as I know them and would be glad to talk off forum if anyone wants to know details.

I'm sorry if I have offended but I don't live in 30 second news bites and the space x propaganda world. Truth may hurt but is still truth and physics is physics.

I am removing my soap box from the square and will refrain from further fire starting.
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Last edited by surfduke; 02-11-2020 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 02-11-2020, 10:28 AM
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NASA has its own record in the LOM, LOV and, sadly, LOC departments. You think NASA isn't looking over EVERYTHING SpaceX does when it comes to humans riding on Dragon? (Or looking over everything Boeing does in the case of CST-100?) Do you think NASA just ignores 8705.2B because the rocket says "SpaceX" on the side? That's lunacy.

You don't like Musk. Fine. But with 88 successful launches, a record of innovation and a safety record that has improved over time, SpaceX's accomplishments are nothing to sneer at. Or does citing empirical numbers make me a dupe of SpaceX's "propaganda"?

Back to my "uninformed" brand of modeling....
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  #27  
Old 02-11-2020, 11:11 AM
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I was not trying to insult You.

NASA at the pad rat level is very concerned with the quality and safety of Space X hardware. There are many issues that don't make the press. The range safety crew had dinner with a group of us post escape test launch at the clarion. I can tell you that the Air Force and NASA both have many issues and outstanding closeouts with all of the vendors in the present projects. Space X has no fans at the grunt level and the higher ups at HQ don't care to here about problems with Faulty pressure tanks or debris in fuel lines etc.. until something goes boom. All the old guard knows that the reason for all the safety and quality steps that Space X ignores is to limit the booms. It's not that I don't like Musk. I just don't want to fund his dreams at the expense of my own.

In the defense of NASA HQ. It was the last admin. (Lori Garver) that married them to Musk and the ones that I have had the pleasure to speak with have never said anything good about the relationship in private. I know for sure that handing over PAD 39A was a VERY unpopular move too.

I can go on and on but as I said before I would be more than happy to talk off forum about my personal knowledge of the programs if you wish.

Have a great day and again I in know way wished to offend you.
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  #28  
Old 02-11-2020, 11:20 AM
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Helpful Life Tip: When you call people who don't share your point of view "uninformed," you've insulted them.
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  #29  
Old 02-11-2020, 11:27 AM
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I am sorry,

I use that in engineering conversation all the time.

I will be more careful in the future.
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  #30  
Old 02-11-2020, 11:32 AM
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One more thing.

It was not point of view but facts only that I was speaking of. My opinion is not of value but my knowledge is.
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