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  #71  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:54 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by SLONE View Post
Ok! See your dream!
Whoa! I have LUT envy.
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  #72  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:17 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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corrugated surfaces links

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Originally Posted by dhanners View Post
I'm sure you're awash in references, but in case you haven't seen these, they have great photos and drawings that detail the corrugations. And yes, while it does entail a lot more work, in 1/24th scale, the corrugated surfaces would be very prominent features of the Saturn V's body.

John Duncan
The Project Apollo Archive
APOLLO MANIACS : Apollo spacecraft and Saturn Rocket / Apollo project

Rick Sternbach (yeah, the "Star Trek" guy...) discusses corrugations on his Saturn V Clinic page: The Saturn V Clinic
Actually I am the opposite to "awash" (whatever that is). The only technical books I have are on the mathematics of space flight which are of zero help in terms of this model build (not surprisingly). So your sources were and are very helpful and much appreciated.

Kevin
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  #73  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:25 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by mbauer View Post

Yes, designed to fly, but hasn't yet.

Mike
Can't wait to see that. Is there a provisional launch date? Would 16th July 2019 be fitting or is that too far away

Kevin
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  #74  
Old 01-12-2018, 06:42 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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1/24 stringers update and thanks

Dear all

I am still investigating the stringers for the 1/24 model. Thank you to everyone who is helping me out with information about the them.

And on a general point "Thank You" to everyone for all your posts and comments. They are great to read and really encourages me. I am still somewhat flabbergasted by the uptake and hope everyone is enjoying the thread.

If any visitors are reading this, I am so glad I took the plunge and joined the forum
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  #75  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:13 AM
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dhanners dhanners is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Algebraist View Post
Actually I am the opposite to "awash" (whatever that is). The only technical books I have are on the mathematics of space flight which are of zero help in terms of this model build (not surprisingly). So your sources were and are very helpful and much appreciated.

Kevin
"Awash" means, "containing large numbers or amounts of someone or something." If you were awash in references (I didn't want to be presumptuous when I wrote) you'd have lots of references. If you lack research material, you have a dearth of references.

You've done a stunning job on the F-1s, but keep in mind the engines used for flight were covered with an insulated batting. Granted, adding the batting would obscure all the great work you did, so you could model one of the display Saturn Vs.
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  #76  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:24 AM
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southwestforests southwestforests is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Algebraist View Post
Also seeing all the fantastic workings of the LUT (an often overlooked masterpiece) in slow motion is incredible I think. So here is a video I hope you will enjoy.
Is that art or technology?
Or art about technology?
__________________
Screw the rivets, I'm building for atmosphere, not detail.
later, F Scott W
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  #77  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:39 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Dear all

I have been working on the 1/48 model (waiting for a break in the weather for the 1/24 model).

I have been concerned with the "join" of stage one and the interstage. Things have been slow because first you need to get both the forward skirt of stage one and the interstage circular and of the same radius to get a good join. If either parts are elliptical it will not look good or even worse not go together at all. Even if both are circular if they have radii differing by more than 0.5 mm I think the join will look bad or even not work at all.

An post from earlier in the thread is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post
When fitting the interstage I used a circle that fit very snug inside, top and bottom so as to make kind of a "drum" structure, near the flanges to give it a perfectly circular shape. Then putting the interstage onto the first stage, lightly moistened, so the two parts could fully dry together.
So following this idea I started to finish off the rim of the forward skirt and build the interstage as accurately as as I could using the "drum" idea. Because of the multiple layers of wall I needed 3 different sizes of circular former/template (214mm dia, 215mm dia and 216mm dia) and everytime a layer was added it was checked with the appropiate former and left to dry "in situ".

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc12011.jpg

Above shows after I have added the inside wall and "lip" (parts 14 and 15 pages 1-4 of stage one-forward skirt parts). The lip has 3 layers of paper "outside it" and lip fits inside the interstage which is 3 layers of paper thick! So very little margin of error. It turned out that before I added the lip, I checked the top of the forward skirt and it was slightly oval (less than 1mm bit still troublesome). So I made an oval former and SLOWLY over time rotated it to make the skirt circular. Then removed the oval former, VERY SLIGHTLY (not even a flea lick) moistened the rim and added the perfectly circular former and left it dry for over a day.

Meanwhile turned to the interstage only to find the instructions and parts do not match. I may have made a mistake, however when rechecking the download there is still the mismatch. Looking back at earlier theads I see other people have had a problem at this point

So just in case the current situation is the mismatch I will include a photo of each step of how I made the interstage (though it may not necessarily be the best way) in case anyone wants to "see" how and use it as a type of instructions.

First I cut out the outer parts of the interstage (parts 1,2,3,4 of interstage pages 1-2) and then joinrd them together using strips cut from parts 5 and 6 (of interstage pages 3-6) to form a long line (the order is part 1,2,3,4). Each strip is longer than the interstage deliberately, and after each join I rerolled the joint to get the curvature correct.

Attachment 334870 Attachment 334871

Then I trimmed the excess of the joining strips. Doing it this way I found the easiest to ensure the interstage was as level as possible. Then I joined the strip together to form a ring. Immediately checking it matched sitting on top of stage one and inserting the correct size former and then leaving it to dry "in situ"

Attachment 334877

Then I glued the rest of parts 5 and 6 to the inside of the interstage ring (remembering to have the umbilical connector correctly placed on part 6) re-rolling after gluing to check curvature and letting dry with a former inside again "in situ"

Attachment 334878

I then glued parts 7 (printing facing inwards) to the inside of the ring (so the ring is now 3 layers thick) re-rolling etc as previously. I put the seems of where two part 7 happened at a different place any other joins on the interstage to maximise strength. Note that you are going to have two more layers after this and you want to avoid those seems also. However the last layer (the inside of the interstage) is fixed where it must go so you need to think ahead to ensure seems for different layers do not overlap. Crucially at this point you want the thickness of these 3 layers of paper, at the bottom of the ring, to be NO thicker than the outer 3 layers of paper of the forward skirt of stage one. So I really applied pressure to the bottom rim of the interstage at this point but critically keeping circular shape.

Attachment 334879

Then I glued parts 8 (printed side facing out) to the inside of the ring, re-rolling etc as above, including seem placement (note that by now you will probably be using a 214mm dia former)

Attachment 334880

Next I cut out part 9, two parts 10 and part 11 which are the inside of the interstage (so printed side facing in). They need to be lined up with the umbilicals etc on the outside of the interstage. By now the inside diameter of the interstage is noticeably smaller than the outside diameter. This means that the parts 9,10,10,11 together are to long. These part have marked on them where the 8 vertical struts will be glued which support the ribs of the interstage and they MUST be equally spaced. So you cannot glue the first three parts and trim the last. After doing the mathematics I calculated if I trimmed the width of a "white strip" on one same side of each of the parts they would fit exactly and be in their correct position. Here is a trimmed piece for clarity

Attachment 334881

I then glued them in place (slightly nervous)...

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11983.jpg

They fit perfectly.
What a design Mr Greelt A. Peterusma what a design! Spot on!
And I re-rolled etc.

It was after this point that I added the "lip" on stage one. The lip has very little overlap or gluing surface so it cannot be expected to act as a "corrector" to force into place a bad stage one and interstage. It is there just to locate the two parts, so I decided to glue it with Anita's tacky glue (rather than uhu) because it dries pretty rigid.

So here is the result

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11999.jpg 1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc12000.jpg 1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc12012.jpg 1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc12013.jpg

The interstage sits squarely all the way round (if such a thing is possible), no rocking.

(sorry that the second picture is on its side. It is the right way up on my computer. Happy to change it if I can find out how to)

The interstage ring is already strong enough to keep its shape without the struts and ribs.

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc12010.jpg

I do worry about the 1/24 model though. Doubling every length, quadrupling every area and increasing every volume by 8 fold, yet the paper is just the same strength. Will the interstage be able to support itself?

Going to finish this post now but not before saying a special "Thank You" to Mechanic for passing on his experience and excellent advice about this part of the build. For me it has been a tricky join and would never have a such a good result as this without his help

Last edited by Algebraist; 01-12-2018 at 09:43 AM. Reason: Tried to get picture to reappear but failed
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  #78  
Old 01-12-2018, 09:48 AM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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missing photos

Dear all

In my previous post picture 2-8 are not working. Not sure why. So trying again here

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11931.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11953.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11954.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11956.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11957.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11981.jpg

1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)-sdc11982.jpg

Hope this works
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  #79  
Old 01-12-2018, 11:56 AM
rifleman rifleman is offline
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well have to say WOW
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  #80  
Old 01-12-2018, 08:20 PM
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beckychestney beckychestney is offline
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I do worry about the 1/24 model though. Doubling every length, quadrupling every area and increasing every volume by 8 fold, yet the paper is just the same strength. Will the interstage be able to support itself?

Maybe if you mount the ring parts to very thick card like posterboard then they may be able to assist in supporting the outer tube?
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