1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)

[Algebraist]

Dear all

With just a few hours to go before the end of the year here here is an update of the build.

I have been working on the 1/48 thrust structure and stage one (before moving onto the 1/24 model). It is mostly finished as shown below



Been trying to understand possible scaling up issues there might be. The first priority is to ensure the rocket does not look wonky. This means trying to cut to perfection on the 1/24 scale. I have been able to cut better than within 0.5mm but do not have the eyesight to be within 0.25mm. However I think I will be accurate enough.

I added internal parts as follows. All "rings" of the rocket were made 2 layers of paper thick and I added 3 extra formers (one in the middle of the USA ring, one in the middle of the corrugated ring above the USA ring and one in the middle of the panel ring above the "flag"). I cut the formers out of 2mm thick greycard. The rocket is remarkably strong (sounds like a drum if you tap it)






For those interested I am using 4 different types of glue!



I use mainly "Anita's tacky glue". This has very little water so for most cases there is no warping at all. It has a very short window of use I find. So for example I used this glue for joining one ring to another. I use "Aleene's tacky glue" where the area is too great for Anita's (ie it dries before you can cover and locate everything). I have found Aleene's less tacky than Anitas, easier to spread, a longer working time and a bit more plasticy, but more water content so produces more warping. I used this for gluing the formers to the rocket tabs. I use uhu for where I have large areas and want zero warping. I find I do not have a good "feel" for uhu but am getting to know it better. So for example I used this for the sides of the rocket and inside panels. Finally 3M super 77. I used this for the bottom of the thrust structure and for any future large laminate areas. I found it very strong bond but I needed to be accurate. However the crucial thing is this is a serious industrial glue and contains some serious chemicals (as a chemist friend explained to me) so needs to be used strictly in accordance with the instructions. This means outdoors in the weather for me. So not very often for me in the UK.

I am concerned about possible "fitting together issues" that I see other people have mentioned (between stages one and two) so I am currently looking into that before I finish off 1/48 stage one.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year!

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by Algebraist

I certainly don't have a ceiling anything like high enough to stand up the finished model in and I think lying it on its side it will be too long for any room. It would fit in the garage however

That is where I have been keeping my 1/32 scale model at, in the garage.

Been working on a wall mount design that angles it up diagonal along the wall, using small shelves for the support.

The rocket will be seated in a Styrofoam cooler that has been cut to match the dia. This spreads the weight out, you will still need to rotate the model if you store horizontally. Weight will mis-shape the model over time.

Best to store vertical if you can.

Impressive photos! Looks great!

Mike

[dhanners]

Looks sharp!

[Mechanic]

Originally Posted by Algebraist

I am concerned about possible "fitting together issues" that I see other people have mentioned (between stages one and two) so I am currently looking into that before I finish off 1/48 stage one.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year!

When fitting the interstage I used a circle that fit very snug inside, top and bottom so as to make kind of a "drum" structure, near the flanges to give it a perfectly circular shape. Then putting the interstage onto the first stage, lightly moistened, so the two parts could fully dry together. Fitted the second stage similarly.

The second-to-third interstage is crap right from the start, being far too large, guessing about 5% too large.

I tried trimming it to size at first, but that required removing far too much material and then the top of the cone is still too large for the next former anyway. And yes, I checked the scale marks on the pages, they were printed to the 'proper' size. I'm going to reprint it and while I'm at it try to print an inner skin with some simple detail, I'm hoping for something like how the engine fairings are done.

BTW, if you haven't glued your fins on yet, I'd wait until you're almost done with the whole model to do so. They are ridiculously fragile.

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by mbauer

That is where I have been keeping my 1/32 scale model at, in the garage.

Been working on a wall mount design that angles it up diagonal along the wall, using small shelves for the support.

The rocket will be seated in a Styrofoam cooler that has been cut to match the dia. This spreads the weight out, you will still need to rotate the model if you store horizontally. Weight will mis-shape the model over time.

Best to store vertical if you can.

Impressive photos! Looks great!

Mike

Thanks for the tip about rotating the model over time Mike. Like the idea of having the rocket at an angle. It would be great to see some photos of your model.

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by Mechanic

When fitting the interstage I used a circle that fit very snug inside, top and bottom so as to make kind of a "drum" structure, near the flanges to give it a perfectly circular shape. Then putting the interstage onto the first stage, lightly moistened, so the two parts could fully dry together. Fitted the second stage similarly.

The second-to-third interstage is crap right from the start, being far too large, guessing about 5% too large.

I tried trimming it to size at first, but that required removing far too much material and then the top of the cone is still too large for the next former anyway. And yes, I checked the scale marks on the pages, they were printed to the 'proper' size. I'm going to reprint it and while I'm at it try to print an inner skin with some simple detail, I'm hoping for something like how the engine fairings are done.

BTW, if you haven't glued your fins on yet, I'd wait until you're almost done with the whole model to do so. They are ridiculously fragile.

Thanks for all the "heads up" and tips. Currently trying to get my head round the thrust structure of stage 2. Finding the instructions challenging! However looking at your photos on your thread has been very helpful.

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by rifleman

ive just come across this so best of british to you look forward to seeing more

Thanks

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Dear all

I have been working on the "height" problem of the connection between stage one and stage two for the 1/48 model.

I first made the top of the LOX tank (the dome) for stage one (pictures below)



I noticed that one of the gores is narrower than the other seven (the lowest one in the second picture (it is the last of the gores in the printed parts, ie page 8 stage one forward skirt 7 part 17, 4th gore). Does anyone know why this is so? I am thinking of replacing that gore with one of the others because that will have the effect of reducing the overall height of the dome (though will increase its diameter slightly).

[Algebraist]

Next I made up a 1/48 J-2 engine (mainly to get the height of the engine). Below are some photos of the construction of the engine.






I could not quite get everything to fit because I have made the exhaust manifold too circular (will flatten it for the real engines). Also if you do this engine, I may have missed it, but parts 18 and 19 are not mentioned in the instructions. I found a good time to add them to the model was just before the step "cut out and glue part 20". Overall height of my J-2 engine is 70mm.

One problem I did have was cutting out very small circles (3mm diameter) for the ends of small cylindrical parts (like part 52 on page 5 of J-2 engine, the propellant utilisation valve I think). I tried using small curved nail scissors as well as "stabbing with a scalpel" method. I was not very good at either of those ways. If anyone has any suggestions or advice for very small circles they would be most welcome.

A final thing about the engine is the white "start tank" (the white sphere). In the instructions it is suggested you "acquire" a bead of some sort in some way! I wondered if it could be made out of paper so took one half of one ply of "kleenexe tissue" and added pva glue and mushed and rolled into a tight ball using my fingers and then let it set (rock hard). I wondered if people think it looks ok or does it look naff and is letting the engine design down?

Thanks

[Algebraist]

The final part of possible height issue involves the stage 2 thrust section.

After cutting out the outer of the interstage, I did a quick version of the the stage 2 thrust section. This has really slowed me up, firstly because this part of the model is by the designer Frederic Bouchar (whereas the previous sections were designed by Greelt Peterusma) and whereas Greelt has laid out the instructions (and parts) for beginners, Frederic has pitched things (particularly the instructions) for the more experienced modeller. (No criticism intended, just letting people know). Photos below.







The bottom of the J-2 engines should not come below the bottom of the interstage. I calculated the vertical height of the stage two thrust structure to be 60mm (of which 13mm is inserted into the stage two structure). The interstage has a vertical height of 104mm.

Here is what I have found, if the J-2 engines attach to the "cross beam support structure" which is flush with the bottom of the thrust structure then the engines will protrude below the interstage by 13mm (1/2 inch). I am sure I am doing something wrong but I cannot see what at the moment.

As soon as this is sorted I can continue with the 1/24 build!