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  #21  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:46 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveB View Post
How about the cardboard tube from inside a roll of carpet or floor covering? They're quite substantial if you can find a secure way of joining them.
Thanks for the tip SteveB. I think you are right in that this model may well need some "industrial cardboard" parts for support reasons

Kevin
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  #22  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:53 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by SAustin16 View Post
A very interesting and challenging project. This will be fun to follow.

I have to agree with ShadowCory that perhaps a well-designed PVC or similar frame would be your best bet for a strong and light structure from the beginning. I wonder how much a completed life-sized astronaut will weigh.

SURFDUKE - Great to see you again. You have been missed, Sir. Hope all is well.
Glad you are finding this attempt at a model interesting SAustin16. Hopefully it actually will be fun to follow. I hope so!

I am not at all sure how much it will weigh at the end (if successful) but I think quite a bit more that I originally thought. Mainly because I now think it is going to need much more support than I thought. However if successful I will post the weight.

Kevin
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Last edited by Algebraist; 12-01-2019 at 12:55 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:54 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAustin16 View Post
A very interesting and challenging project. This will be fun to follow.

I have to agree with ShadowCory that perhaps a well-designed PVC or similar frame would be your best bet for a strong and light structure from the beginning. I wonder how much a completed life-sized astronaut will weigh.

SURFDUKE - Great to see you again. You have been missed, Sir. Hope all is well.
Glad you are finding this attempt at a model interesting SAustin16. Hopefully it actually will be fun to follow. I hope so!

I am not at all sure how much it will weigh at the end (if successful) but I think quite a bit more that I originally thought. Mainly because I now think it is going to need much more support than I thought. However if successful I will post the weight.

Kevin
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Last edited by Algebraist; 12-01-2019 at 12:56 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2019, 12:58 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by Vermin_King View Post
I can totally relate. Only I didn't decide to do that approach until my third go around. For an RPG (Role Playing Game, not rocket-propelled grenade) that is set in Venice, I decided to help a guy out and design a slightly smaller than game scale version of the Rialto Bridge. I found a postcard model that I really just don't like at all, but I know I am going to have to build it, if I ever hope to get the game model to work. I should have decided to build it earlier...
Thanks for the advice Vermin_King. I know think I am choosing the right path in doing the 1/4 scale ahead of doing the life-size parts. Much appriciated

Kevin
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2019, 03:07 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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1/4 boots

Dear all

So I have been doing the boots of the 1/4 model to try and get a better understanding how they go together. Hopefully this will make it understandable how to do scaling up to life-size.

So first up is the internal support structure

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11285.jpg Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11286.jpg

As stated in the instructions some parts (and in fact nearly all the parts of the boots) are backed onto 0.5 mm thick card. I am using cereal boxes as suggested in the instructions. All okay so make the second support for the other boot

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11287.jpg

Next up is to make the "cleats" for the sole and then attached the sole to the support structure. So this means gluing to both sides of a cereal box backing card. Because of the highly glossed "printed side" I decided to rough this side up to give the glue more to key onto. To do this I "came across" an emery nail board of my wife. Seemed to work okay (as shown below)

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11288.jpg Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11291.jpg

So now attached the cleated soles

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11292.jpg Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc11293.jpg

I do like the look of these. But then things start to go down hill.

When trying to do the heal and toecap there are issues with the backed card. If I back it first, when rolling, the outer layer stretches noticeable and ruins the print face, whilst the inner card layer crumples as if the card is too thick. It is not satisfactory. So I try rolling the outer and inner layer separately then gluing together and then trimming. This is much better BUT I an not accurate enough with my cutting. Also I find it is not good using a knife (which is what I was using) since this requires the bonded part to be flattened and still spoils the print a bit.

I build up the blue toe cap etc using joining strips (which I found very fiddly and hard for me) but passable. Forget to take any photos. The comes the grey inner boot parts up to the ankle (which is attached to the top of the support structure. I found this a nightmare and no matter what I tried I could not get it to fit.

In the end I stopped and moved onto the ankle part of the boot (which is made separately and then attached to the lower part of the boot. This was more successful (as you can see)

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc13384.jpg Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc13515.jpg

But try as I might I could not make the bottom part of the boot. Here are just some of the parts after many attempts

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc13406.jpg

Slightly desperate I try going from the top down (not following the instructions).

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc13516.jpg

More failures. Try going from the bottom up in a "semi-backed and non supported hybrid"

Life-Size Buzz and Neil (enlarged 1/4 Ken West "Apollo Astronauts on the Moon")-sdc13517.jpg

Again failure.

To be clear this must be because of something I am not doing properly. This is a wonderfully designed model and people have built fantastic models from it and posted them on this site.

So I am temporarily abandoning building the boots (so I can figure out what is going on) and instead an going to start on the legs. Still following the plan of 1/4 model first and then life-size.

Regards

Kevin
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2019, 08:22 PM
lfuente lfuente is offline
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For what it's worth, I have zero experience with heavy life sized models so my thought experiment may not work.

If you go ahead with the internal support frame so the individual pieces aren't supporting much weight, maybe you can print parts on the thickest paper that yields smoothly curved parts. Then harden the parts on the unprinted side with superglue, wood hardener, fingernail hardener or similar products after construction, so that they still can support some weight while keeping the correct shape. Additional strength may be added by layering paper mache strips or v-channel paper stiffeners inside the part after hardening. The parts should probably be assembled with stronger adhesive than white glue.

Hopefully the completed model will have a mutually supporting/cantilever structure that will be stronger than the separate pieces and still look good.
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2019, 06:54 AM
JohnGay JohnGay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermin_King View Post
I used to use those for supporting stage props, but I don't think I have seen any narrow enough to use in this project, but I could be wrong. I often am
Not to be the guy who says you're wrong, but . . .
I work in shipping and we get shrink-wrap film on cardboard rolls with an outside diameter ~3 1/4" and a length of 19" The wall thickness is about 3/16th"
Shipping tubes could be another great source, but they might not be cheap.

So, just keep your eye out for other options.

Cheers,

John Gay
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  #28  
Old 12-02-2019, 09:53 AM
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Vermin_King Vermin_King is offline
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Those would work better.


Kevin, have you had any success?
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:29 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfuente View Post
For what it's worth, I have zero experience with heavy life sized models so my thought experiment may not work.

If you go ahead with the internal support frame so the individual pieces aren't supporting much weight, maybe you can print parts on the thickest paper that yields smoothly curved parts. Then harden the parts on the unprinted side with superglue, wood hardener, fingernail hardener or similar products after construction, so that they still can support some weight while keeping the correct shape. Additional strength may be added by layering paper mache strips or v-channel paper stiffeners inside the part after hardening. The parts should probably be assembled with stronger adhesive than white glue.

Hopefully the completed model will have a mutually supporting/cantilever structure that will be stronger than the separate pieces and still look good.
Thanks for that lfuente. They seem promising ideas and I shall look into them.

Kevin
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2019, 01:31 PM
Algebraist Algebraist is offline
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Originally Posted by JohnGay View Post
Not to be the guy who says you're wrong, but . . .
I work in shipping and we get shrink-wrap film on cardboard rolls with an outside diameter ~3 1/4" and a length of 19" The wall thickness is about 3/16th"
Shipping tubes could be another great source, but they might not be cheap.

So, just keep your eye out for other options.

Cheers,

John Gay
Following your posts suggestion JohnGay I have now found out there is a whole myriad of tubes you can buy. Many thanks for the pointer, much appreciated.

Kevin
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