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  #11  
Old 08-04-2020, 04:20 PM
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Doubting Thomas Doubting Thomas is offline
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Back in 2010 I posted my build of a 1/100 P-38 lightning using silver wedding gift wrapping paper. I sprayed the printouts first with Deft satin sealer after printing then spray mounted the silver wrapping paper onto typical white bond printer paper. I think I had to roughen up my glue tabs because the Deft sealer kinda interfered with the Elmers white glue. Do a search here at the forum and you can see how it came out.

Jeff
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2020, 12:26 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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Thanks Jeff (Doubting Thomas) for your feedback about your experience building a paper model using Wedding gift wrapping paper. I was thinking other modelers have previously tried to build models with silver wrapping paper. My wife made the suggestion to go to stores that gift wrap wedding presents and sample their silver wrapping paper. We are currently staying-at-home so that will be a little while before we can do that.

I did a search of the forum and found this link that I think is your post on the forum:
1/100 WWII P-38 Lightning

I also found this link not on the forum about building an Atlas D rocket using silver paper:
Paper Kosmonaut – Atlas MA-6 Freedom 7 in 1/96
https://paperkosmonaut.blogspot.com/...-7-in-196.html

I completed the Saturn 1B tanks Aries construction techniques project and will be starting the 2nd test build of an Atlas D rocket using silver gift wrapping paper. There are several construction techniques I will be trying in this test build.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2020, 01:23 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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2nd Test Build

I'm starting the 2nd test build of an Atlas D using silver gift wrapping paper. It is being made with the unused laser printed silver paper from the 1st test build. The object of this test build is to explore building techniques for issues identified in the 1st test build.

These photos shows the the additional reinforcing paper glued to the back of the silver paper. Their placement is where parts like the Vernier Fairings, Instrumentation Pods, and Forward and Aft Bulkheads will be glued. The paper connector strip is bent to shape before being glued to the edge of the silver paper.

I have the gluing test of attaching large silver paper to plain paper from the 1st test build. I decided to use it to test my gluing method for the Main Tank seam. The next photo shows both the Main Tank glue test and the 2nd test build before the rolling process. My gluing method for the 2nd build test is to use Tacky glue for the seam under the Instrumentation Pod and Canopy glue for the seam above the Instrumentation Pod.

While doing this with the glue test Main Tank part, I complained to my wife the clamp I am using is triangular shaped and flattens out the bottom of the tank while the glue dries. She suggested I use a strange clamping device called a Hair Pin to hold the seam together. The next photo shows the 2nd build Main Tank held with the Hair pin. I used a Styrene tube to hold the shape of the connecting strip while the glue dried.

The last photo shows the seam side and front side of both the glue test and 2nd build Main Tanks. I did notice that many of these surface bumps flattened out in the rolling process on the glue test Main Tank. Also, it is stiffer than a plain paper rolled cylinder. This may be the same effect we saw with the composite gluing of parts in the Saturn 1B tanks Aries construction techniques thread.

I find this an interesting observation. From my limited experience building models using silver gift wrapping paper, I would think the Atlas model building scale range would be between 1:300 and 1:200 scale. Anything above that scale, the silver paper is too thin for modeling. Spray adhesive or some other gluing method may bond the silver paper to plain paper or card stock. Jeff (Doubting Thomas) may have used this method in his thread about building the 1/100 P-38 lightning using silver wedding gift wrapping paper.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-main-tank-braces-back-glued.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-main-tank-refore-rolling.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-hair-pin-main-tank.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-seam-side-front.jpg  
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  #14  
Old 08-13-2020, 04:14 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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The 1st test build was to see if a model could be built using silver gift wrapping paper. I am building the 2nd test model as if it is a 'flight'(display) ready model. Currently I don't have a good solution for stands for models in this scale. However, I want to build them to be stand ready when I do find a solution.

With that in mind and after gluing the Aft Bulkhead to card stock, I needed to have a hole in it for the stand. During the pandemic, I bought a set of hollow punches on eBay for another project that had too many small circles for me to cut. I used the 2mm punch to make the hole in the Aft Bulkhead. In the photo you can see I was a little off center, but this is a test build to experiment with different methods.

The next photo shows the parts I used to put on the model for the stand. The black tube is a plastic coffee stirrer. I am using a plastic tube instead of a paper tube because it should better handle the wear of inserting a stand into the model than paper would. The plastic tube is cut to 1cm(3/8”) and card stock is glued around it with Super Glue. Be sure to let the Super Glue have time to cure before handling.

The over-hanging card stock was cut into 6 tabs and folded outward. Tacky glue was used to glue the card stock tabs to the Aft Bulkhead aligning the plastic tube with the hole. The next photo shows the Aft Bulkhead and the Main Tank.

In the 1st test build I used gray water based paint to edge color the Aft Bulkhead. In the 2nd test build I am using silver paint that I have for my model trains to edge color the Aft Bulkhead. I like using water based paints because of their easy clean-up and other paint may require ventilation to use.

This is in the random thought category. After posting about the thin silver paper and using it in scale-up building of larger Atlas models, I thought the original Atlas rocket was so thin that it had to be pressurized with nitrogen gas to keep its shape. Maybe large scale modelers who want to be prototypical to the original Atlas rocket would use the thin silver paper and put a balloon inside to keep the shape. Of course, there is the problem of keeping the balloon inflated like in the original Atlas rocket. Maybe we can be a little too prototypical in our modeling, but that would be something to see.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-hole-punch.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-parts-stand-set-up.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-base-main-tank.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-silver-paint.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 08-14-2020, 07:13 AM
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Doubting Thomas Doubting Thomas is offline
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I've only built 2 rockets, well 4 actually. The two best ones are my Mercury program one from the Delta 7 studios site and a SMAP (Soil Moisture Pasive/Active) satellite on a delta rocket. The SMAP is a modified Mars pathfinder one using Photoshop for the color change from AMX site. My older brother worked on some of the software for the data collecting of this satellite at JPL pasadena.

Both models I printed on typical bond, and layered them not more than 3 sheets of bond recycled-extra volunteer board meeting documents. More layers than three tend to get thicker and when rolling tend to buckle. AirDave has talked about rolling tubes getting thicker in other posts. 4 layers together or more and you are getting to the point of the thickness of a Manila file folder and food packaging cardboard, somewhere around 1/32" or 1-2mm.

My SMAP I used spray mount and I'm getting a slight flaking of my printed outer layer at the seams. Probably should have sealed that one like I did with the mercury.

I roll my rockets on a suitable wood dowel, or metal tube, even a highlighter marker works if it's the right diameter. Pre-shape the rocket, glue squirted on tab, carefully hold rocket on cylinder form, match other end to tab and gently bond. Then using cereal box cardboard or junk mail card stock. Roll them around rocket. Then use rubber bands to hold everything over night. Beats using clamps on a cylinder shape. You can use as many rubber bands as needed the length of the rocket.

Silver colored Sharpies are sold as are those shake-able paint pens in gold and silver for the edges.
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  #16  
Old 08-14-2020, 06:06 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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Thanks Jeff (Doubting Thomas) for sharing your experiences with silver edge coloring and gluing cylinders. It is always good to get tips from more experienced modelers. That is why I like the Google on-line meetings. The diameter of the 1:240 scale main tank is 8mm(1/2”) and my wife thinks I would have to find a rubber band like the dentist use. We are social distancing with my son's family, so that means we have to stay-at-home and not go to stores. I am having to build these models with the material at hand.

The 1st test build showed that the silver gift wrapping paper did not bend to sharp/defined edges. The 2nd test build is to explore options to make these sharp/defined edges. My thinking is the silver paper needs thin plain paper glued it its back to create the sharp/defined edges. Like the thicker card stock keeping the curve with the Saturn 1b 1st stage tanks.

My wife had me helping her putting labels on storage boxes and I looked down in my hand and saw thin paper that is sticky on the back. That is how I got the idea to put paper labels on the back of silver parts. The 1st photo shows the labels we were using; they are 3”x 1” in size. The next photo shows the silver parts cut to test fit on the paper side and stuck to the adhesive side.

The next photo shows the parts glued to the Main Tank in a front and side view. The Vernier Fairings show a sharper defined edges than in the 1st test build. I then did a test fitting of the remaining parts to see if I could attach a paper label to them. The last photo shows the test fitting and the parts attached to the label.

If this works, it will address the issue of the thin silver gift wrapping paper. The thickness is now that of bond paper and there is a smooth bonding/gluing of the papers. I don't know how long the adhesive will stick to either sides of the paper. I have seen labels fall off file folders over time and others you can't remove. I am limited to the size label we have for test. I am sure they come in different sizes and can be used for larger parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-labels.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-parts-stuck-label-big.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-parts-glued-main-tank.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-2nd-parts-stuck-label.jpg  
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:01 AM
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Paper Kosmonaut Paper Kosmonaut is offline
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Hi Willard! Nice results! And in quite a tiny scale, too.

Some nice tools to have at hand for building are calipers (to measure cross sections and diameters, and knitting needles. They are good in helping you curve cones as well as cylinders. I have quite a handful of all sizes and thicknesses. Roll them in the fleshy part of the palm of your hand.
Sturdy and coated paper are a drag to glue. I often pre-roll them just a tad smaller than the desired diameter and leave them rolled up for half a day (or longer). Glue strips on the inside are attached with super glue (CA) I also often use some light sanding to roughen up the parts where I will apply glue later.
I use reversed* clothes pins for keeping the seams together while the CA sets.

A rod with almost the right diameter but just a little smaller is ideal to be used as an inner reinforcement during the setting of the glue. You could try and roll paper around the rod until it just has the right size to slide your cylinder over so it fits snugly. Then, roll the cilinder in paper and put a rubber band around it to keep it all tight. It often works well. (just remember to let the CA glue dry first so it will not stick to the rolled-up paper.) Afterwards you can use PVA to reinforce the seams on the inside on both sides of the glue strip.

I used quite heavy silver glossy card for my model and used a printing medium to be able to print lines on the super smooth surface. It is a bit of a hassle to apply and after printing and processing during the build it is very prone to blemishes. I solved this in another way, by just cleaning the surface after building with some windex-type of cleaner. It removed the printing medium as a whole and with it also the printed lines and markings. These I printed on decal paper to add later.
My 1/96 Atlas now resides in the National Spaceflight Museum in the Netherlands. I hope your version gets a lot of views too!

*reversed clothes pins: Take the pins apart, and turn the wooden parts around so that the inward facing parts now face away from the spring. Put the spring between the two wooden parts and now the squeezing part of the pin is the flat part instead of the curved section that goes over the clothes line:


This gives you - in my opinion - a more precise and better clamp than a regular one.

Don't worry too much about the curvature of the hull, a tight seam is more important first. After that you can reshape it. You can line the inside of the cylinder with regular paper and layer it up, so that when you add a couple of reinforcing rings, the added paper inside helps with not showing the rings through the hull.

PS. I also published the photos and build story of my Atlas here on the forum, by the way.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-d635b3f2d46eafb14f3e213ac944939d.jpg  
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2020, 07:20 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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Hi Paper Kosmonaut, thanks for the tips and I will try them out. I have admired your models on your blog since I first found them on the Internet. I'm not at your level of modeling, but it gives me a goal to work toward. My tools are very basic but I am slowly adding to them with the advice from forum modelers. My models are huge compared to Kevin(kwc)'s More rockets in 1:480. I'm not sure I could build an Atlas D model that small.

In the forum's download section, I found markcable's Atlas Centaur 10 model and downloaded it. It is a very detailed model and even has a page to print on silver paper in it. I decided to try using the top of LOX pipe and engines from his model. I learned from the Google on-line meetings this is called “kit bashing” a model.

The 1st photo shows the different options I looked at using to make the LOX pipe. I thought that if I only used the silver gift wrapping paper only, I would get a tighter roll for the pipe. I found the silver paper is too thin and the glue distorts it in the rolling process. The left 'pipes' are the more successful attempts at rolling the pipe. The third 'pipe' is a solid copper wire I stripped the insulation off that I would paint with the silver paint. The right 'pipe' is with the label paper attached to the back of the silver paper part. It rolled the best of all the attempts and I used it on the model.

The parts above the 'pipes' are the top part of the LOX pipe from the Atlas Centaur 10 model, copied 4 times, and printed on the label paper. I stick it to the back of the silver paper and cut it out from the label side. This part is very small in 1:240 scale and caused me problems in both cutting and gluing it. It is a good thing I made 4 copies to work with. I found that in the future I will have to color mark the glue tabs as I got disoriented in the folding process.

The last photo shows the LOX pipe with top glued to the Main Tank. The Main Tank Tapered Section is beside it, ready to attach. I will work on the engines next and see how they will fit on the Aft Bulkhead with my addition of the stand parts.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-lox-pipe-options.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-lox-pipe-main-tank.jpg  
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  #19  
Old 08-16-2020, 04:45 AM
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dhanners dhanners is offline
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When I started building card models -- mainly launch vehicles in 1/96th -- many years ago, I sought out model rocket tubes (and any other cardboard tubes I could find) and wrapped the model's "skins" around them. Made for a very straight and strong model, and it was no problem working with light-weight metallic papers.

If I couldn't find a tube that was the exact size I needed, I could generally find a tube that was just a bit bigger and then cut it down to size. Rick Sternbach discusses how to cut Plastruct tubes down to size on his Saturn V Clinic website, and I found that the process worked just as well with cardboard tubes. (I just checked and it doesn't seem the website is available, at least here in Cyprus. Could be som EU data-privacy issue. Or maybe the page is gone. If you're in the U.S., Google "Rick Sternbach" and "Saturn V Clinic" and see if anything comes up.)

The photos are old and they suck but here are some builds with metallic "skins" on model rocket tubes. All are 1/96th, except the Gemini-Titan, which is 1/48th.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-img_0090.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-img_0091.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-img_0092.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-img_0093.jpg  
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  #20  
Old 08-16-2020, 01:21 PM
Willard11 Willard11 is offline
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Hi dhanners, Thanks for the information and your models are very impressive. I like your method of wrapping “skins” of thinner silver paper around thicker cylinders. This is sort of like what I did with the Saturn 1B tanks Aries project. I used thinner printed paper instead of silver paper glued to card stock. I am going to put this on my list of techniques to explore in the future. I did a Google search of "Rick Sternbach" "Saturn V Clinic" and this was listed: The Saturn V Clinic - Rick Sternbach
http://ricksternbach.com/SatV/Saturn_V_Clinic.html. When I clicked on the link, I received this message: “Not Authorized to View This Page [CFN #0004]”. Is this the same message you received?

In the 2nd test build I am making changes to the white parts page. The 1st photo shows the changes of the engines from the 1st test build and 2nd test build. I am using markcable's Atlas Centaur 10 model engines scaled to 1:240. In the process of doing this, I discovered that my HP Ink-Jet printer prints larger than my Brother's Laser Printer. I think this is because of different printer drivers for the different printers. The Brother's Laser Printer prints to the measurement of the software ruler. This may explain why I am having issues scaling the Aries Saturn 1B model from 1:450 to 1:480.

The next photo show the 2 sets of engines in front of the Atlas rocket. The line and lettering do not match up because I didn't check that side soon enough before the glue set too much for me to realign it. The building process has changed between the Main Tank and the Tapered Section so they had different thickness. The Tapered Section has the label backing it with the Main Tank having only the thin silver paper. This shouldn't be an issue when both parts have the same thickness like in the 1st test build.

The next photos shows a top-down view of the 2 set of engines and how I glued the engines to the Aft Bulkhead. The next photo shows a comparison of the engines between the 1st and 2nd test builds. Note the 2nd test build center engine is wide enough for the stand option. The last photo shows a comparison of the entire rockets between the 1st and 2nd test builds. Next, I will starting working on the Agena payload for the 2nd test build rocket.
Attached Thumbnails
Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-engine-paterns.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-engines-front.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-engines-top.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-engines-glued-.jpg   Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-compare-engines-1st-2nd-test.jpg  

Atlas D in 1:240 scale printed on silver paper-compare-1st-2nd-tests.jpg  

Last edited by rickstef; 08-16-2020 at 02:10 PM.
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