F7A Santa Fe Diesel Engine (O-scale)

[sgoti]

Originally Posted by Erik Zwaan

Today, with increasing surprise, I read the changing tone of this thread in a matter of just one day.

Sgoti, the technical comments and links you provided are very valuable and are appreciated by designer and publisher. But let me remind you that you are a guest of this thread. My thread, and your sarcastic comments go too far. Be happy that there are people, non-Americans, who take the trouble to convert a piece of American heritage into a paper model that everyone can enjoy.

It gives a lot of pleasure to those involved in it and they deserve much better than your irrelevant comment. Turn it around: What do you know about the Dutch Railways and the trains that operate in our country? Nothing, I suppose.

So, behave yourself otherwise I reserve the right as host to show you the door.

Erik

The efforts demonstrated here are greatly appreciated!

Let me (carefully, and with respect) turn your comment back: Be happy that there are people helping you avoid gross errors.

1) Diederick originally proposed a coach with red and yellow striping, I informed him that was a rare color combination, and stainless steel cars would be more appropriate.

2) I provided him with what links I was aware of to help get a (very) general idea of dimensions, contours, etc. One of these was labeled "Budd" (follow-up below).

3) I am right now informing you that while your model is beautifully rendered, it is not a model of what you say it is.

I am thoroughly impressed with the level of detail and careful design that went into the original subject of this thread (the EMD F7A). It is a work that everyone involved, designer to builder, should be extremely proud of. Everything looked fully researched and well thought-out.

This car, while looking beautifully rendered, did not look as well researched. Not being snarky or sarcastic, just stating my first reaction. The Airbus/Boeing comparison was the quickest comparison I could think of. Both make narrow body twin jets (A320 and 737, respectively), but there are immediately recognizable differences, whether or not one is an expert.

What do I know about Dutch railways? Off the top of my head... Absolutely nothing.

However, were I trying to find information, I would use my own suggestions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_t...he_Netherlands

From there I would springboard to information about a particular operator, train, piece of equipment, etc.

If I had any other questions, such as unfamiliar terms (like "Budd"), I would ask.

Based on the partial scan of the truck (bogie) in Diederich's thread, and the details shown in your renderings, I am fairly confident I know one source of your information, a model railroad magazine article from at least 25 years ago (don't know, going from memory here).

If that is the case, it had excellent information on the various car builders and specific equipment used on the Santa Fe's Super Chief. (Again, going from memory).

One other detail: The car ends, as you have shown them to be, are from the Budd-built cars. If you are going ahead with the ACF/P-S car, I would correct this.

Also, this used to be an excellent resource for passenger car photos:

PASSENGER CAR PHOTO INDEX

ONE BIG GIANT CAVEAT: The original owner of this site has passed away. He used to be good about updating links as people made him aware, but obviously can't now. Some links may not work. (and as I find out from time to time, too many...)

One other source of information might be here:

Railroad Picture Archives.NET

Useful, but you are at the mercy of knowing what you are looking for. Certainly not all-inclusive, and in a few cases over-inclusive.

Good luck, gentlemen!

[sgoti]

One more thing: The trucks (American term, "bogie" elsewhere) were usually manufactured by GSC (General Steel Castings)

[sgoti]

And... (sorry!)

Just to make things even more aggravating, some passenger car trucks had an 8-foot, 6-inch wheelbase, others had a 9-foot wheelbase. Really throws a wrench (spanner) into the work depending on what you are dimensioning from...

(What was under what depends on the car. Sorry, no automatic blanket statements...)

[sgoti]

One good source of photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mberne...57660532470228

Yes, they're all Amtrak, but when Amtrak was formed they bought a good portion of the passenger cars from railroads looking to get out of the passenger business.

The paint scheme will be different, but window locations and most of the details will still be the same.

Also a good study in the details between the builders. If a particular car is of interest, a Google search of the railroad and car number should provide its history.

[southwestforests]

Originally Posted by Diderick A. den Bakker

Delighted to be able to tell you the Santa Fé F7 A and B locomotives are a great success. Encouraged by that, designer Cor and I have decided to go for a coach as well - we have some drawings like the one attached here.

Skimming the posts right quick with my cat in the way, I don't see a reference to The Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
https://sfrhms.org/
The folks there would have info available, and probably quite a bit, based on my experience a few decades ago with the Louisville & Nashville historical society.

[abhovi]

Hello Erik,
It is always nice to receive positive comments about what one has made. It gives inspiration for next projects.
The other side of freedom of speech is that people are also allowed to criticize what is wrong in their eyes. I often do that, trying to diminish the atmosphere of rejection as much as I can and adding thoughts of how things could be improved.
I attentively read Sgoti's comments and I cannot discover any hateful or sarcastic statements. On the contrary, he apologizes several times for perhaps giving the wrong impression of being over-critical. I suggest you reread his postings and forget the idea that he is insulting you. He is not. He delivers useful information more than once.
And if he made these suggestion in an earlier stage of the development of the kit, that would be more than a reason to listen to what he says. I'm sure Diederick agrees.
And even if he were out to insult you, so what? We are talking about our hobby here... paper representations of big things, made for fun.
Keep on showing your impressive efforts of putting together kits (I wish I had your skills) and accept that on several areas there are people with more knowledge about the subject than you have. I ran into that fact all my life.
Ab

[Erik Zwaan]

Gentlemen, I am happy to see that the discussion is yielding into a very useful stream of information, from which the designer can extract many details. Thank you very much sgoti / Glenn and Southwestforests. My apologies to Glenn for my sharp words, if I have misinterpreted certain wordings in his earlier postings. Providing constructive criticism though is imperative (thanks Ab), so that a beautiful, realistic design of the model will come out of it, and eventually, hopefully, a well-built prototype. Really looking forward to that.


Regards,
Erik

[abhovi]

Bravo Erik, up to your next project, which I will surely follow.
Ab

[Diderick A. den Bakker]

To prevent disappointment: Cor has all but finished the design - we will call it 'Santa Fe sleeper car'. Much of the information now available to us has simply come too late to incorporate it. Non-sleeper car buffs will not be aware of any 'problems', the real specialists will have a whale of a time taking the model apart to see what a hotchpotch it is.... Hope that will not prevent them from building it anyway.

Perhaps some explanation on my part in all this: I am the publisher, and try to make ends meet financially. Cor and I discuss all our projects, and in most cases I do a lot of groundwork trying to find the necessary information - which often proves surprisingly difficult. Then, as Cor progresses, we sometimes find more information 'just in time', but more often than not 'just too late'.

Then I do the publicity and marketing - very disappointing in the case of the Sir Nigel Gresley, a great success with the F7. Win some, loose some.

I would be very grateful for reservations! Price will be similar to the F7 - but as long as the layout is not yet available I cannot be more exact.

Diderick A. den Bakker

[sgoti]

That is an unfortunate position to be in.

I did have a list of suggested changes that would have allowed the model to be more authentic and possibly allow for further expansion in the series, but shall refrain from wasting our time.

Best of luck!