Victoria, 1887, British Battleship, 1:250

**Golden Bear** · #1 06-04-2008, 06:47 AM

I've decided finally to give this effort its own thread since it seems as if it is actually going to happen. Since I am on vacation I can give it a little more effort than usual and might actually wrap up the design portion before returning to work.

The Government in England has original plans available for purchase for this ship but they are fabulously expensive and charge even more if one intends to use them for a commercial purpose. I didn't want to pay the money anyway and I also want to leave the door open for sharing later so I decided not to go that route. I got started on this effort when I found a not-very-detailed drawing of the ship in the online French Naval Archives which are FREE and available to anyone morning, noon and night. Big kudos to the French for this.

So my resources are very limited...
- Plan and section from French Archives
- Elevation from a book
- Elevation from Conway's
- Seven nice but not hi-res photos
- Photos of a model of Sans-Pareil in a British museum
- Photos of a resin kit, unpainted
- Photos probably of the same resin kit assembled and painted

By piecing all this together I can make a very nice image of the ship. The least reliable portions are of the top deck inside the bulwarks where I cannot confirm model details with photos. The eventual model will 100% faithful to the expression of the ship but probably only about 65% accurate otherwise. Once again I am designing with the intent of leaving open the possibility of kitifying it.

Some background:
Victoria (name changed from Renown before launching) and her sister ship Sans-Pareil were launched in 1887 and were the first battleships to use triple-expansion engines. They carried as main armament 2 enormous 16.25" breech loading guns. A single 10" gun with only a light shield was mounted to cover the stern. There were additionally 12 6" guns mounted in casemates along the sides. By placing both main guns in a single turret it was possible to make a more compact and heavily armored ship than by using a fore and aft centerline placement.

Dimensions:
10,470 tons, 363' oa x 70'

...and here are the images of the model as of the start of day today...

Carl

**jagolden01** · #2 06-04-2008, 06:50 AM

Interesting looking ship.
Will follow this closely.

**Barry** · #3 06-04-2008, 10:14 AM

The drawing is now hanging on my wall for inspiration Carl and I am sure the card reality will be just as good

**Royaloakmin** · #4 06-04-2008, 10:40 AM

Carl, I did check my library but did not find anything. The RA Burt book on Victorian BBs unfortunately starts with the next class, the Admirals. this will be a great thread, bet you get at least six interested people

regards

**member_3** · #5 06-04-2008, 11:24 AM

This is a great subject, Carl. Your images (and no doubt, the model) certainly capture the essence of the ship. It brings to mind a couple of David Hathaway's models that have unconventional deck layouts to accomodate "oversize" armaments. Sign me up as a member of the peanut gallery on this one.

**Don Boose** · #6 06-04-2008, 11:28 AM

That is one magnificent warship, Carl. I look forward to watching it take shape in paper.

Don

**Greg S.** · #7 06-04-2008, 01:19 PM

GB: The Burt predreadnought book has a small profile drawing. Did you get the picture I sent you of the stern of Sans Pareil?

**GreMir** · #8 06-04-2008, 01:30 PM

I see GB shifted to British designs but there is still a French connection there :D
Looks like you are completely lost for the airplane world :(

**dansls1** · #9 06-04-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreMir

I see GB shifted to British designs but there is still a French connection there :D
Looks like you are completely lost for the airplane world :(

At least he's given up trying to fit the zealot 'sci-fi' theme with his renderings for now

This is a mean looking ship. I'd say from a non-ship guy, probably one of the meanest looking ships just because it seems that the entire shape and purpose were to put the biggest gun they could in the middle, like a tank on the water. Look forward to watching you progess on this one.

**Golden Bear** · #10 06-04-2008, 03:43 PM

No, Mike, not lost. Not really. I'm just doing what is funnest at the moment. I have several planes just crying for me to build... the Orlik Mossie for instance. The SM79. Loads o' little biplanes.

It is funny in a way. For decades I have collected information on these old ships and built models of them out of wood and such. But I was never really happy with the result. Paper seems like such a natural medium for building ships that it now seems funny to me that it never occurred to me before.

Some more history for the non predreadnought ship people:
Victoria had her funnels raised in 1890 - Sans-Pareil had been finished with tall funnels already.
In 1893, as flagship for Vice-Admiral Tryon of the Mediterranean fleet, she was performing a maneuver with the rest of the fleet prior to entering harbor. Apparently the admiral liked to stage an exhibition each time prior to mooring as a show to people on shore. This time the fleet was split into two columns steaming parallel to each other. At a signal the two columns commenced turns into the middle space - I imagine with the idea of having them merge neatly into a single column steaming the opposite direction. Well, there was a little miscalculation since it meant that the ships were sailing straight at each other and not enough sea room had been allowed for them to complete their turns. Thus, Victoria and Camperdown wound up sailing straight at each other at a combined speed of maybe 30 knots, playing a game of naval "chicken." Apparently everybody on the bridges of the two ships saw what was going to happen but since the admiral was also watching they didn't want to say anything and exceed their authority. Well... BOOM!! and the two ships whacked honking big holes into each other below the waterlines - made specially fine by the lovely armored rams that ships carried in those days. Victoria went down like a rock propelled by inrushing water and the huge gun assembly on her bow. I think that something like 400 men died on her... but not including the young John Jellicoe who had been belowdecks when the collision occurred. Camperdown limped desparately towards shore where she was beached to save her from sinking. Vice-Admiral Tryon went down with Victoria. The wreck was recently located and rests vertically with the stern straight up, in much the pose that she would have passed down.

Sans-Pareil was sold for scrap in 1907 as was Camperdown in 1908 as part of Fisher's program to clean up the clutter of old ships in the Royal Navy.

Here is a rather tiny picture of Camperdown listing aground after the ramming...

Carl