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  #11  
Old 08-15-2011, 10:45 AM
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Thanks all for your comments. Joe the scale is 1/72 so much larger than the ACW vessels at 1/250. The Row Galley is just a little over 12" in length.
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Last edited by shawndymond; 08-15-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by shawndymond View Post
Charles - Although there seems to be little written about the activities of these little ships, the following web page - http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-7e.htm - is a report on the excavation of the Row Galley Allen, discovered in 1981 in Lake Champlain. The preliminary part of the report gives some indication of the work of these boats, whilst the remaining part of the report gives details of the excavation, recovery and preliminary restoration.
Thank you, Shawn!
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2011, 04:41 PM
RAFleischman RAFleischman is offline
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Any progress on this? Tomorrow starts the bicentennial of the War of 1812!

Happy New Year to all!

Russ
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2011, 04:58 PM
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Because this just popped up, it got MY eyes popping too!!

Got a question: why the red bottom? I believe red lead paint didn't show up 'til the latter half of the century, and besides, this was a freshwater vessel and wasn't subject to the fouling you'd find in other environments, to say nothing about the hurry in which they were deployed (and their projected short life!).

I haven't any specific sources for this time--the gunboats that Benny Arnold built on Lake Champlain is as near as I get--but I'll apply the economics forward and get the same result: if anything, I'm betting a mix of tallow and lampblack would be your bottom "paint." It could be light grey to brown-black and pass muster. These guys probably lavished more care on their tar and oakum than any protective finish.

But I'm not sure. Chime in, Knowers Of Stuff.

'Duster
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2011, 06:05 PM
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Red? Because this was the second or third boat I did in Sketchup! This is an old project for me and one I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it about color. I was more concerned about pieces parts coming out right. This is a project that needs to be refinished and re-edited in a number of ways. Shawn was doing a great job on that then we ran into issues. With the guns I think. Or lack of. Anyhow, this is one of a number of projects creeping ahead slowly.
CT
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:30 PM
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Regarding the combat value of the row galley - I recall one author comparing them to "eggshells armed with hammers."



President Jefferson hated navies and his theory was that America needed only coast defense vessels, gunboats and row galleys. He disbanded the navy that President Adams had built and began to build gunboats and row galleys instead. In December 1807 there were 69 of them in United States service, and the Congress ordered 188 more built, as an auxiliary to the Embargo which was declared a few days later. By 1812, there were only 170 of them left. More were built or converted during the War of 1812.


The US "Gunboat" was generally a small sailing vessel, with a light schooner or sloop rig that carried between one and three heavy cannon on pivot mounts. It was small enough to be effectively moved using oars and was typically fought under oar power with its cannon swung to bear on the broadside.



The US "Row Galley," as its name suggests, was intended to bring two large cannon to the battle on a large hull designed for rowing, not sail. However, they typically had two masts with a light lateen rig and since it's cannon were on the bow and stern, it fought end-on.


There were a number of arguments in favor of these "movable batteries."
1) They could act effectively in shallow water where large vessels couldn't and there was a lot of shallow water - dredged harbors were very rare. If worse came to worse, they could flee out of range.
2) They could be concentrated in groups against larger vessels so as to present a similar number of weapons. 10 gunboats and row galleys could bring 20 cannon against a 36-gun frigate, which could only deploy 18 to each side.
3) A gunboat or row galley is a small target, compared with the target presented by a large ship.
4) Further, their guns, being close to the water level improved the aim of their weapons, while the motion of the ship impaired the accuracy of the ship's guns.
5) Shots aimed too high would do no harm to gunboats, but would injure masts and rigging of frigates. Some ships would find it hard to depress their gun barrels enough to hit galleys or gunboats that were close aboard.
6) Galleys and gunboats propelled and steered by sweeps did not risk the most crippling of accidents to ships; the loss of critical sails or the steering gear.
7) Unlike every sailing ship, being powered by sweeps, row galleys were not vulnerable to the direction of the wind.
8) Finally, 70 or more gunboats or row galleys could be built for the cost of a single 36-gun frigate.

But there were also some serious weaknesses.
A) No one realized until in combat that there was no effective way to exercise command and control over a group of them once combat had commenced. The existing signal flag systems were very limited, rigid, and were entirely oriented for sailing ships, not gunboats. For example, how do you signal the command to "Beach your craft?"
B) Because of their shallow draft and limited freeboard, they were very vulnerable to bad weather. In fact, to go outside of a river or harbor, the cannon usually had to be stowed below decks, or the vessel would be unstable. If we put the same 36-gun frigate mentioned before (#2) against 10 gunboats or galleys in a strong breeze, or even a somewhat rough swell - the tables are turned - frigate will just be having target practice.
C) Between 1805 and 1810, their predominance in place of the normal ships, had a terrible effect on the training and morale of the US Navy. They were very hard to man, especially in peace-time, because few men wanted to handle fifteen to twenty foot long oars. Many fine officers quit the service and some never returned. The boats sat around and rotted, until the war began.
D) But the big problem was that gunnery was improving by this stage in the age of fighting sail. These gunboats or row galleys were lightly built and so they were very easily disabled or sunk. A single solid hit from a cannon would do it. Even the smallest of sailing ships could take far more damage and survive, and continue the fight. To see what I'm talking about - see this USS Niagara Live Fire Demonstration - YouTube After you look at that damage, consider that the target - the brig USS Niagara was several times the size of a row galley, and was built far more strongly.



The long 24lbr was the main attacking weapon because it combined a terrific punch with decent range. This was the same weapon carried as the main armament of the US Navy's Constitution-class frigates. When the galley was turned to retreat, the carronade was used. It's short range firing grapeshot turned it into a giant shotgun - discouraging any pursuers. Note that in the designs for the American sailing navy of the time, the 42lbr carronade is commonly called for, but it was almost never fitted because few were made. It was significantly heavier than a 32lbr but had shorter range - a bad combination for shipboard use.



After checking through various Orders of Battle from the war of 1812, I find that:
1) There were no row galleys at the Battle of Put-in-Bay(10 Sept 1813). That surprised me, because I know that there were several on Lake Erie. It seems that their cannon were transferred to pivot mounts on schooners that did take part in the battle.
2)I suspect that there were several that provided guns for the Battle of Bladensburg (24 Aug 1814) - the galleys themselves were destroyed two days before the battle.
3) There were six of them present at the Battle of Plattsburgh (11 Sept 1814). Note that they are described as having 18lbr carronades, not 42's. The British are listed as having several similar craft but we don't know much about their design or weapons.

4) The best-known gunboat battle of the war, the Battle of Lake Borgne (14 Dec 1814) did not involve any row galleys.


There is no debate that the presence of the gunboats did change British naval policy during the War of 1812. The British commanders did their best to avoid attacking to the gunboat's strengths, but had no hesitation when it was to their advantage - e.g. the Battle of Lake Borgne.


I hope that this helps.


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  #17  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:59 PM
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This is a detailed description!
Thank you!
Joe
I will translate long time .... ;-)
(translate with google)
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:16 AM
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Very interesting historical recap! Thanks so much. Looking forward to building CT's boat, now.
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:35 AM
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What is interesting is, with the advent of the ironclad, both the CSN and USN considered the idea of swarms of armed steam launches with spar torpedoes to combat the armored ships. Similar in idea to the row galley, and with all the same advantages and draw backs, this idea was not fully developed during the Civil War.

I like that show weapon-olagy. I think one could make the argument that the wolf-pack sup tactics used in WW2 could be traced back to the idea of the row galley mass attack tactics. How smaller light vessels could take down capital ships.

CT
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
What is interesting is, with the advent of the ironclad, both the CSN and USN considered the idea of swarms of armed steam launches with spar torpedoes to combat the armored ships. Similar in idea to the row galley, and with all the same advantages and draw backs, this idea was not fully developed during the Civil War.
Jefferson and co were heavily influenced by the battles the USN had with the "Barbary Pirates." During the period, there were many lurid stories published about the threat that the "pirate" galleys posed. These stories were common from the early years of the republic through 1816 (when the last battles were fought between the USN and Barbary States).

This ties into the Civil War because many of the Navy leaders in the Civil War had been junior officers in and prior to the War of 1812. They were doubtless familiar with those stories, and some had participated in those battles.

However, sanity prevailed and they never did do the "swarms of armed steam launches" idea - although the fate of the CSS Albermarle shows that the logic was sound; if surprise could be assured.

The concept of "swarms of small boat" attacks persists to this day - it is the logical basis that Iran is using for their threats to close the Straits of Hormuz.Iran says U.S. warships in Persian Gulf spawn 'mayhem' - CNN.com
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