Light Cruiser "Hr.Ms. de Ruyter" 1936-1942 waterline, camouflage - Page 7

**Simplyred** · #61 03-07-2014, 08:47 AM

For others who might be building this model in the future, I have attached a pdf file with scaled Dutch flags I created for this model.

The Flags have a left and right side divided by a gray area.
The grey area is supposed to go around a pole from about 1mm.
Normally, your poles would be grey as well, so it won't show much.
Left and right side of the flag of course need to be glued to each other so that both sides are printed.

**Simplyred** · #62 03-08-2014, 10:18 AM

Based upon the desktop research as specified above, I created the rigging for Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" as close to the original as I could.
For the cabling I used two different diameters of thread. The struts for the mast and the masts themselves are created from broom fibers.

**scon10** · #63 03-08-2014, 02:34 PM

Hey, is the cruiser in distress? The flag is flying upside down!

**Longbow** · #64 03-08-2014, 04:44 PM

Good work on the cabling and antennas !
Scon has sharp eyes

**Simplyred** · #65 03-08-2014, 04:55 PM

Very well seen !!

Yeah, I was not sure yet about the types of flags that were carried. So I placed a post with some questions on the Dutch navy forum, and awaiting possible answers..... :-)

It could be, that the normal tri-color was carried, but it could also be that a special flag was carried that's named "dubbele geus". That's this one:

Furthermore, just about the time of the battle on the Java sea, there could also have been a commando flag on the command tower, since the Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" carried the flag officer of the naval fleet.

**Robijntje** · #66 03-08-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simplyred

Based upon the desktop research as specified above, I created the rigging for Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" as close to the original as I could.
For the cabling I used two different diameters of thread. The struts for the mast and the masts themselves are created from broom fibers.

Nice build! But, ehm, sorry to mention that, the flag (the one in the rigging pics) is up side down. The dutch flag is red, white, blue.
Greetz, Robijntje

**Simplyred** · #67 03-09-2014, 02:57 AM

I did some more research after the flags possibly carried by Hr.Ms. de Ruyter at the time of the Java sea battle. I found only 2 photos of "de Ruyter" in camo painting, and as far as I know no more photos exist. I found that confirmed on the Dutch Navy forum. Another difficulty is, that apparently nobody knows if both sides of the camo painting were the same, since both available photos are taken from the same side.

However, with regards to the flags carried, I saw that Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" mostly carried the 3 colored one in top of the commando mast, not the "dubbele geus" (aka "Prinsengeus") which every Dutch Royal Navy vessel is allowed to carry by declaration of her Majesty the Queen (back then).

However, I have been able to find pictures of Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" carrying the "dubbele geus" on several photos to be found at the site of "Maritiem Digitaal" if you do a search with "kruiser de ruyter" you will find tens of photos where at some of them the dubbele geus was carried at the front flag position at the bow section.

On a personal note, it seems however that this "dubbele geus" back then was more carried in times of presentation, not too much in times of operation. More photos can be found with the normal tri-color, than the "dubbele geus". However, in a later time frame around 1950 more and more photos are showing the dubbele geus. So there SEEMS to be a slight change in protocols with regards to the flags carried. But as said, this is a personal note, I have no evidence other than personal perception to back that up. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can intervene?

So, I created a new PDF with all possible flags carried aboard Hr.Ms. De Ruyter that could be interesting for us modellers. It includes scaled versions of the 3-color, the dubbele geus, and the commando flag.

About this commando flag: having a flag officer aboard (Rear Admiral Karel Doorman was commanding the ABDA fleet in the battle of the Java Sea) at that time it seemed logical that Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" carried the commando flag.
However, not clear still is which one, since that differs with the rank of the flag officer aboard. Now, there is yet another riddle: our famous Karel Doorman actually held the rank of "Schout bij Nacht" which has it's own, 2-star, commandoflag. However, this rank does not exist internationally. Internationally, it is assumed they would call Karel Doorman "rear admiral" which however is connected with a 3-star commando flag instead. So the question is, which one is carried? Without further information, I need to just assume that the 2-star commando flag was carried, but again, I am not sure!
So on this one as well, any comments from more knowledgeable persons is valued!

@ Robijntje : yes, it was on purpose. See the post just above yours...

I will change it today because all the flags are mounted later today. Will upload a new picture after that!

**legion** · #68 03-09-2014, 08:14 AM

Quote:

On a personal note, it seems however that this "dubbele geus" back then was more carried in times of presentation, not too much in times of operation. More photos can be found with the normal tri-color, than the "dubbele geus". However, in a later time frame around 1950 more and more photos are showing the dubbele geus. So there SEEMS to be a slight change in protocols with regards to the flags carried. But as said, this is a personal note, I have no evidence other than personal perception to back that up. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can intervene?

You are aware that there are 2 distinct De Ruyter cruisers? The one sunk in 1942 is the one you are building, but the newer one was the 50's vessel. Both were built on the Feijenoord shipyard in Rotterdam (even in the same dock!).

**Simplyred** · #69 03-09-2014, 10:27 AM

Hi Legion,

Yes, I am aware of that. In fact, there is a whole line of ships that were named "De Ruyter" and not by a long shot they were all cruisers. Also other types of vessels once had the name "De Ruyter" or were renamed later.
The remark you quoted was more about the usage of the "dubbele geus" in the Dutch Royal Navy which seems to have slightly changed over the years.

**Simplyred** · #70 03-09-2014, 03:15 PM

With only the circular radio antenna on the command tower to mount (it's drying from painting) and one Fokker airplane left (it is in backorder with Fokker

) it's time to show a few pictures of the model. So here they are.

After the few bits to do as described above, I will go and try to put Hr.Ms. "De Ruyter" in the sea. Modelling Master Jos Bakker has given me a few pointers and tips on how to do that, and I really hope this will work out and I will find the skills to at least make something that looks alike Jos' completely awesome seas!
I consider that a project of it's own, and quite honestly, I am looking up against the job. A bad job done can ruin your project and that would be a pity.

However. Photo's first now!

Photo 1 - Fokker airplane on the catapult
Photo 2 - Commando tower / Superstructure
Photo 3 - Bow section
Photo 4 - Aft deck
Photo 5 - Rigging

The last photo also shows the green position lighting. I thought I'd make it more realistic than the flat card grey thingie the kit provides. So, out of card, I created this light and painted it green. Red on the other side of course.