PaperModelers.com

Go Back   PaperModelers.com > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-14-2020, 04:51 AM
abhovi's Avatar
abhovi abhovi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alkmaar, the Netherlands
Posts: 477
Total Downloaded: 51.04 MB
Another Dutch warship

Sometimes one can find himself in making a model that was not planned. I don't remember exactly how I got to making another man-of-war after the last one I did not too long ago, because making another one would hardly add to the story.You can read about the previous one here: A 17th century Dutch man-of-war (around 1660). Nevertheless a second one has been made over the passed few months. This is how things apparently go...

It all started with a historian, Wilma Gijsbers, who came to me with a lot of beautiful 17th century archival material of which she wanted to be informed about the technical details: in 1680 the Spanish king ordered 8 men-of-war at 7 private shipyards in Amsterdam and one in Harlingen up north. All eight ships were delivered within a year, but at one yard a conflict developed. The king's agent, a Dutch merchant who lived in Spain and acted as his representative, was not satisfied about some of the wood used in the beginning of the build and demanded it to be stopped. The shipbuilder ignored him and continued building. A law suit followed and Wilma found all the details in the Amsterdam archive. The best thing for us was that the ship was measured in all its dimensions after the build, which resulted in the possibility to compare the finished ship to the ordered one in the contract. It appeared to be 3 inches longer, a little bit deeper and 6 inches wider and also other dimensions did not completely fit the demands. However, this was daily practice. Wood is a living material and the builder has to work with what he had in stock or what he could lay his hands on. Ultimately the parties came to an agreement and the king received his ships. To my knowledge we never had the opportunity to compare a planned ship with the results after building.

It might seem strange that private shipyards were allowed to build war ships for a customer who very well could turn into an enemy of the state. In fact that happened several times, like the case was in 1670, when sort like ships were built for the French king, which were used some years later to fight our own fleet near Tobago. One of the French (Dutch made) vessels was so damaged that the crew abandoned it after which it was taken by the Dutch, brought back to Holland, repaired and sold..... again to the French king, for even a higher price than the first time.
History can have its twists and we can learn from this story that trade went above politics.

Another Dutch warship-franse-vloot-van-de-velde-de-jonge-2-kopie.jpg
(Willem van de Velde the Younger: Newly built war ships for the French king)

Sorry for this long intro. Because we had the dimensions and so many details of these eight ships, a reconstruction drawing was made with the help of my loyal Belgian help Rene Hendrickx, whose demand of the shipbuilding program Delftship is in my view almost legendary. I feld the need to check out the lines we designed and the build of the model went so fast, that I totally forgot to take pictures of the first stages. No harm done, everybody can see my simple techniques in my previous posts. Within a month I was stuck with a perfect hull and it seemed too hard to leave it unfinished, although I never planned to make the model.

Another Dutch warship-zijaanzicht-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-z-spantenraam-118-kopie.jpg
(side and body view made in Delftship)

Another Dutch warship-knipsel3.jpg Another Dutch warship-knipsel-3.jpg
(3D view and section)

Building the hull was not what I wanted to report here about. My aim this time is more about the ways a model can depict reality and the degree of succes in this aspect, solely depends on the right choice of materials. My plan was to depict a ship in a calm, not necessarily without wind, but enough stir of air to dry its sails. Bellowing sails on a ship model are very nice and I like them a lot, but they are also easy to make. Anybody can do that. But making loose hanging sails in a credible way is another story, which closely depends of the right choice of material. I used a lot of different fabrics over the years. I even tried paper, but it never delivered what I was after. It was a former colleague at the museum who helped me out. She came with a cloth called 'voile cotton' (google that), which had exactly the characteristics I was after: it was very closely woven, was a little bit transparent, cheap and easy to work with. I can recommend it to everyone who is looking for good sail material, even on bigger scales than mine (1/77).
Another problem with such a setting is loose hanging ropes. I use linen for my ropes and if a hanging rope is what I am after, I stretch the rope with a weight for some time and remove the curls left by the long time is was on a coil by treating it with shellac. This produces a stiff line, which can easily be bent into a natural curve and is actually mounted in stead of rigged between two points. A drop of glue does the job.

Another Dutch warship-het-kanonschot-kopie.jpg
(Ship firing a gun by Willem van de Velde the Younger)

This is what I was after: a painting by Willem van de Velde the Younger of a ship in a calm, firing a gunshot. It is a composition which was used over and over again and I was not after an exact copy, but I wanted the same atmosphere and looks of the obvious weight of the sails, hanging in their buntlines and clews. The tops had to visible in the cloth and the whole setting of the rigging had to be more or less a bit messy, with relaxed loose hanging ropes where it was appropriate and flags hanging down from their poles. A ship out of action with very little wind, probably at night fall.

Another Dutch warship-img_9679-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-img_9766-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-img_9786-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-img_9998.jpg
(The side view is not really spectacular with this setting of sails, but the quarter views are most satisfying in my humble opinion)

Here is the result. I hope you like it. I do, and so does my son Emiel, who made the pictures. I am awaiting his creations in Photoshop.
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
  #2  
Old 06-14-2020, 07:27 AM
Michael Mash's Avatar
Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: The Great Lakes
Posts: 4,080
Total Downloaded: 0
Hello Ab:
Have we ever seen anyone hang sails this way? I don't recall any being modeled like this.
If the appearance in the painting is what you were after, you succeeded brilliantly.
Of course, your story of the evolution of the model is well worth reading.
Particularly the part about selling the same ship to the French king twice!
The photos are exqisite.

Mike

Last edited by Michael Mash; 06-14-2020 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Spelling correction
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2020, 07:43 AM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 17,864
Total Downloaded: 172.25 MB
I always enjoy your essays on the history of Dutch shipbuilding, your commentary on the historical research behind your models, and the beautiful images of your magnificent models.

It is not entirely surprising that Dutch shipbuilders built warships for potential enemies. I understand that in the 16th and 17th centuries, the high quality of Dutch weapons and their ability to produce them in quantity led to the strange situation of Spanish armies equipped with Dutch guns fighting against the Dutch.

In the case of this particular model, you certainly succeeded in capturing the appearance a ship with loose-hanging sails. Image 10 (998) really shows this to great effect.

I hope you will provide us with more information on the building of the model as well as more images.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-14-2020, 10:10 AM
Seascape's Avatar
Seascape Seascape is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Piperton, TN
Posts: 1,020
Total Downloaded: 75.27 MB
Another great thread. The sails are amazing. Can't wait to see Emiel's final creation!

Fred
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-15-2020, 02:33 AM
JohnMGD's Avatar
JohnMGD JohnMGD is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Echt, Netherlands
Posts: 590
Total Downloaded: 67.12 MB
Ab, amazingly build, as usual !! Great work !
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
  #6  
Old 06-15-2020, 06:52 AM
Vermin_King's Avatar
Vermin_King Vermin_King is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,806
Total Downloaded: 541.32 MB
Always interesting. On the sail cloth, did you find it with the lines, or did you add the vertical lines in the material yourself?
__________________
A fine is a tax when you do wrong.
A tax is a fine when you do well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-15-2020, 10:24 AM
abhovi's Avatar
abhovi abhovi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alkmaar, the Netherlands
Posts: 477
Total Downloaded: 51.04 MB
See next post.

Last edited by abhovi; 06-15-2020 at 10:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-15-2020, 10:40 AM
abhovi's Avatar
abhovi abhovi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Alkmaar, the Netherlands
Posts: 477
Total Downloaded: 51.04 MB
I had my doubts about posting my stuff here, where the interest is so much more spreaded, that my niche can hardly be of any importance, but because of the way you all express your appreciation I am glad that I did it after all.

Michael Mash and Don Boose: you are always there with positive comments. Thank you for that. Your fields of interest must be immense. If you did not exist, you should be invented.

Seascape: So do I and I promise to keep you posted.

JohnMGD: From a fellow countryman it's always good to hear approval. Isn't there a saying that a prophet in his own country is rarely appreciated. You are proof of the opposite.

Vermin_King: The vertical lines on the sails were simply drawn with a soft pencil. Quick and easy...

Oh, and Don: here are some more pictures:

Another Dutch warship-img_9696-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-img_9985-kopie.jpg Another Dutch warship-img_9988-kopie.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-15-2020, 10:58 AM
Vermin_King's Avatar
Vermin_King Vermin_King is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,806
Total Downloaded: 541.32 MB
Never have any doubts, sir. Part of the joy of a forum like this is seeing and appreciating what others are doing, even if it is something you can never see yourself attempting.


Thank you
__________________
A fine is a tax when you do wrong.
A tax is a fine when you do well.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-15-2020, 12:09 PM
Erik Zwaan's Avatar
Erik Zwaan Erik Zwaan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Leiden area, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,936
Total Downloaded: 17.13 MB
Truly amazing work again, Ab, and what an interesting story! Money rules over morality.

Best regards,
Erik
Reply With Quote
Login to remove ads
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 8.33%
Parts of this site powered by vBulletin Mods & Addons from DragonByte Technologies Ltd. (Details)
Copyright © 2007-2020, Paper Modelers.com