Tillman Maximum Battleship

**eibwarrior** · #1 06-03-2010, 12:33 PM

In all my studies I had never heard of these "never were" battleships. Just ran across them. Here is a basic plan for Rhode Island. They were proposed during the late '20's early 30's and never made the navy's final cut. Massive in tons, but heavy in armament and armor. They were intended to compete head to head with the IJN's Yamato class and still have enough speed to escort the flat tops.

Man, it looks like an HMS Rodney on steriods crossed with an Iowa Class battleship.

This would make a great design/build subject. LANCER!?!?!? Where are you when I need you? :D

**legion** · #2 06-03-2010, 12:38 PM

that has quite a low profile for a BB.

**Lex** · #3 06-03-2010, 12:41 PM

...Because it's a design from the 20's?

Wait, if it were the 20's then how did they have any idea about Yamato? Even the Japanese haven't got to that part of the story yet...

**Michael Mash** · #4 06-03-2010, 01:28 PM

Hello EIB,
I have never seen it before either. The cage masts look familiar. It has five triple turrets. These must have been stopped short by the "Washington Treaty". Do you know the dimensions and the size of the main guns?
Mike

**eibwarrior** · #5 06-03-2010, 02:07 PM

Good point Lex. I got confused. The Washington treaty killed these battleships. They were planned to compete with the IJN's big super dreadnoughts of the era like the Fuso class.

**eibwarrior** · #6 06-03-2010, 02:11 PM

Hey Michael...

In the case of the attached picture of Rhode Island, displacement was going to run somewhere around 80,000 tons and the main rifles would be (15) 18"/50s. Quite impressive indeed.

**Michael Mash** · #7 06-03-2010, 02:13 PM

Here is some additional information gathered from widipedia:

The "maximum battleships," also known as the "Tillman Battleships" were a series of World War I-era design studies for extremely large battleships, prepared in late 1916 and early 1917 to the order of Senator "Pitchfork" Benjamin Tillman. The United States Navy was not interested in the designs at all, and only drew them up to win support from the Committee on Naval Affairs, on which Tillman sat. They were among the most spectacular battleship designs ever produced.

Senator Tillman had grown impatient with the Navy's requests for larger battleships every year as well as the Navy's habit of building battleships significantly larger than Congress authorized. He accordingly instructed the Navy to design "maximum battleships," the largest battleships that they could use.

The only limits on the potential size of an American battleship were the dimensions of the locks of the Panama Canal. The locks measure roughly 1,000 feet by 110 feet, and so the "maximum battleships" were 975 feet (297 m) long and 108 feet (33 m) in beam. Harbor depths constrained draft to 32.75 feet (10 m).

Tillman's first request, in 1912–1913, was never completed, and though the studies it involved had some influence on the design of the Pennsylvania class of battleships, that class was essentially just an enlargement of the preceding Nevada class. In 1916, he repeated his request, and this time the Navy's Bureau of Construction and Repair produced a series of design studies, which again had some influence on the design of the next class of battleships, in this case the South Dakotas, an enlargement of the previous Colorado class.

After the first four design studies were complete, design IV was chosen for further development and three additional studies, IV-1, IV-2, and IV-3, were prepared. At the request of Secretary of the Navy Josephus Daniels, these designs used 18-inch guns instead of the 16-inch/50-calibers used in the earlier studies. The Navy decided that design IV-2 was the most practical (or perhaps the least impractical) and presented it to Congress early in 1917.

These designs differed from the battleships being built in two significant ways beyond just their size. Firstly, unlike preceding classes, the "maximum battleships" were designed with a continuous flush main deck. Most battleships in this era had a long forecastle deck. Secondly, the Tillman designs all included five casemate guns mounted aft, two on each side and one at the tip of the stern. Similar "stern chasers" had been previously mounted in the Nevada class, but were omitted from the Pennsylvania class. These casemates were a return to an older design idea; American battleship designers had abandoned hull-mounted casemates after the New Mexico class. They had transpired to be too "wet" -- heavy seas rendered them unusable—and they had been removed from all earlier classes. However, the casemates on the "maximum battleships" would have been higher above the waterline than they had been on earlier designs, so it is possible that their huge size and flush decks would have provided enough freeboard astern to keep the casemates dry.

The Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 limited naval armaments, causing the cancellation of the South Dakota-class battleships and halting all consideration of the "maximum battleships."

**Barry** · #8 06-03-2010, 04:28 PM

HMS Rodney was on steriods in it's original design. When the treaty limitations came along they cut the aft end and 2 turrets off. I guess that would make an original model but it would be a bit on the big side.

**CDNGUY68** · #9 06-03-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry

HMS Rodney was on steriods in it's original design. When the treaty limitations came along they cut the aft end and 2 turrets off. I guess that would make an original model but it would be a bit on the big side.

Barry, that would be some battleship, and it certainly explains Rodney's unique look. I'd love to see an elevation and a deck plan of the original vision.

**lancer525** · #10 06-03-2010, 09:33 PM

Mark, I love the Tillmans! In a way, the Montana class is a modern Tillman.

I've thought of playing around with the TillMax (as they're referred to in some modeling circles) but I never have... I'm still skinning Georgia, so it may be a while, since I've got three other ships on the drawing board after I finish BB-72. However, if you (or anyone else) can come up with a linesplan, sections, and stations diagram, I'll at least draft up the hull. I've never had any idea how to design casemates, since I can't seem to get my head around the way they actually look, so I'd need some assistance with those bits... That's one of the reasons I've not started the Virginia class BBs I wanted to do. Those and the frakking cage masts... Geesh!

Mr. Mash has provided a great bit of info regarding these ships. I had a book at one time that went into a massive amount of detail about the designs, (no pictures, sadly) and it made a fantastic read. Unfortunately, I can't remember the title of the book!

Of course, when you get to be my age, your memory is the second thing to go...