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  #51  
Old 04-25-2016, 11:50 AM
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ringmaster ringmaster is offline
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Don't use tag for anything. The high sulfa content causes it to deteriorate very quickly.
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  #52  
Old 12-19-2021, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringmaster View Post
Don't use tag for anything. The high sulfa content causes it to deteriorate very quickly.
Yep, been checking some of my older models. The glue is not sticking and any laminations are peeling apart.

Tag 125# was the only 24x36 inch sheet sizes available when I bought two basis sheet size boxes or 250lbs worth. I'm still on the second 500-sheets, but trying to get some 24x36 Index is almost impossible.

Really want to do Ken West's Command module by scaling to sheet size when printing. Usually this is 196% on my printer for letter size to 24x36 conversion.

Index 110lb = 199 gsm. Basis Sheet size is 22.5x35 so the scale will be less, but I've ordered a box of 500sheets. Added benefit is it is brighter white than tag is by a noticeable margin.

Once complete it will be on display at the local Challenger Center in Kenai.

Thank you for mentioning this fact!

Mike
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  #53  
Old 07-20-2023, 12:05 AM
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ReynoldsSlumber ReynoldsSlumber is offline
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Responding to your ancient thread! In the interest of making flying models, I took International Paper's data, noting that stiffness goes with thickness cubed, and made a "stiffness lightness score" by dividing the relative stiffness by the density (area basis). The higher the score, the more stiffness per unit weight you get. (Click then zoom in to see the figures.)

Cardstock Property Tables and Terms-intl-paper-stiff-light-score.png

That said, the relative stiffness figures in this table rest on an assumption of identical paper stiffness per unit volume throughout. Your finding that stiffness varies a lot by brand (and by paper type?) means there's another variable that's not accounted for in this particular table. Also if the longevity of tag cardstock is bad, that strikes out a lot of these options.

It may be that weight (density) is the primary concern for paper airplanes, but after that, looking at papers of comparable weights with different stiffnesses could be helpful for choosing.
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  #54  
Old 07-20-2023, 11:17 AM
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Math?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynoldsSlumber View Post
Responding to your ancient thread! In the interest of making flying models, I took International Paper's data, noting that stiffness goes with thickness cubed, and made a "stiffness lightness score" by dividing the relative stiffness by the density (area basis). The higher the score, the more stiffness per unit weight you get. (Click then zoom in to see the figures.)

Attachment 497713

That said, the relative stiffness figures in this table rest on an assumption of identical paper stiffness per unit volume throughout. Your finding that stiffness varies a lot by brand (and by paper type?) means there's another variable that's not accounted for in this particular table. Also if the longevity of tag cardstock is bad, that strikes out a lot of these options.

It may be that weight (density) is the primary concern for paper airplanes, but after that, looking at papers of comparable weights with different stiffness could be helpful for choosing.
Thank you! Never thought of using Math to find the stiffness.

The same time I created this chart, I did one on testing certain blanks from a swatch book of cardstock manufacturers.

I cut each piece exactly the same size, clamped the blanks to a table, picture a swimming pool dive board.

Marls were placed on each end to make piece was clamped to the same spot. The other end had another mark to make sure my test weight was placed at the same location.

Then I placed a 5-gal bucket under the diving board and placed single staples on the extended end. Once the staples fell, I weighed them using a Dillion Re-Loading digital scale. This test was done three different times, then the weight was averaged for my final score.

Math would have been easier.........

Here are the mentioned PDF (old stuff but gives an idea-limited to certain cardstock I was using at the time: Now I use Cover cardstock due to its smoothness and how well ink prints on it.)
4 Testing Results For Card Stock Stiffness.pdf
3 Cardstock Laminates.pdf

Mike
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  #55  
Old 07-20-2023, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringmaster View Post
Don't use tag for anything. The high sulfa content causes it to deteriorate very quickly.
Yes, the TAG does use Sulfur, but so does Index and most other paper when making it.

Here is the chemical list broken into three jpegs:
Cardstock Property Tables and Terms-paper-chemicals-used-manufacturing-1.jpg
Cardstock Property Tables and Terms-paper-chemicals-used-manufacturing-2.jpg
Cardstock Property Tables and Terms-paper-chemicals-used-manufacturing-3.jpg


Mike
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  #56  
Old 07-20-2023, 12:37 PM
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Important to have the real-world trial you did...
Looking at the table I made, 80# cover does rate quite high on the "stiffness lightness score." 65# cover rates almost as high, and it's the lightest of the top-rated cardstock types, so that may be the optimum material for a medium-sized paper glider model.
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  #57  
Old 07-20-2023, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynoldsSlumber View Post
Important to have the real-world trial you did...
Looking at the table I made, 80# cover does rate quite high on the "stiffness lightness score." 65# cover rates almost as high, and it's the lightest of the top-rated cardstock types, so that may be the optimum material for a medium-sized paper glider model.
You've hit on the 65# cover I switched to for my rockets. Cougar brand said it was the strongest available, I bought 500sheets 26" x 40". Have to trim 1-3/4" off the width to fit my 24-1/4" wide format printer.

Been using it on the rockets, kind of flimsy compared to the 125# Tag I use to use, but much lighter weight model when done.

Whiter whites and blacker blacks is what you notice as soon as printing. My old models look yellow an dingy compared to the Cover 65#. All colors look great.

Mike
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  #58  
Old 07-21-2023, 12:55 AM
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Great to hear about your experience—thanks for the tip!
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