laminating paper from a mold - Page 2

**dansls1** · #11 08-22-2008, 08:27 AM

Hmm, I wonder if we aren't thinking too hard. What about trying good old fashioned saran wrap to start with? Cheap, readily available, water impervious, paper (and most glues) don't really stick to it...

Of course it also brings another thought to my head. What about shaping wax or parchment paper in the mold with a harder material as the backing (maybe the paper mache) - you would have a 'paper' part - although it may provide difficult to color...

**stone** · #12 08-22-2008, 08:37 AM

Dan,
if you laminate in plain soft or very thin paper, you'd end up with a perfectly shaped form, which when properly soaked in glue, would be quite stiff and true to form. Saran would be very hard to apply without wrinkles, small though they might be. The laminated paper, on the other hand will have almost the same properties as thin cardboard or cartridge paper.
Regards,
Serge

**Gil** · #13 08-22-2008, 12:02 PM

Hi Serge,

I've borrowed a dressmakers term for those small cuts, "Dart Cuts".

The best way to find where they should be placed is to place a piece of paper cut approximately to the shape required into the mold. It will naturally start to wrinkle as it is pressed into the mold. The wrinkles will be at points of highest stress which are relieved by the folding process. These fold creases are where the "dart cuts" are made. Just cut and overlap the surfaces on one another. Give the entire piece a good burnishing into the mold. It 's a trial and error process but is amazingly accurate and repeatable. Carefully cutout the overlap area of the darts. You now have a template that can be used for the finished piece.

+Gil

**stone** · #14 08-22-2008, 12:51 PM

An absolutely brilliant idea, if I wasn't so dumb, I could have thought of it myself. However, how would you go about it if you've got no mold ? I'm not trying to be bloody minded, but how would you solve the problem then. I mean our Polish brethren must have found a way before we were blessed with digital unfolding ? At least some of us were, so the story goes.
Thanks Gil, I realy am enjoying this, and I'm not merely trying to be facetious. The trial we certainly not eschew, the error on the other hand....
regards,
Serge

**Gil** · #15 08-22-2008, 02:24 PM

Hi Serge,

Many times it's not worth going to the trouble of several CAD induced iterations to produce what can be done manually in a fraction of the time.

Absence of a mold isn't as bad as you'd imagine. Cut an outline of the part out of a thick piece of card stock (~1-2 mm thick - make a "die"). This is used to burnish the Dart Blank through (the "punch"). As before, the blank will fold in all the natural places. Some initial cuts may need to be made in order to begin the process of successive refinement. Make them in the obvious places. Make the necessary dart cuts till it's about right...,

+Gil

**Leif Ohlsson** · #16 08-23-2008, 09:10 AM

Serge, Gil,

on a tangent to your discussion, a query in another thread just made me realize that there are still new techniques to be discovered. Check it out here.

We are all used to what Serge noted as "all those small cuts". But here's a variation on the theme:

For the bulb-shaped part on top of the Dalotel "Viking" cowling, designer Philip Rennesson suggests that you cut out the part to be shaped oversize, then make "all those small cuts" in the surplus material; shape it (on a mouse pad, or perhaps in the cut-out mold suggested by Gil); and then cut it clean. Here's what the part looks like (red parts to be cut away when shaped):

This, I think, seems to be a technique worth exploring. Even if some of those small folds you are discussing seem to have appeared, perhaps it could do away with all those small cuts in wing-tips, etc. What do you say?

Leif

**stone** · #17 08-24-2008, 07:05 AM

Gil,
sorry to be so slow in reacting, would the attached sum up your Punch and Die technique?
Leif,
Did you get the Ryan drawing? The bossage etc. means teardrop shaped bulge (fairing)
regards to you both, got to run,
Serge

**Leif Ohlsson** · #18 08-24-2008, 08:44 AM

Hey, we've got a real Ron-Moulton-kind of artist amongst us. I love this.

I virtually grew up on Ron Moulton, Aeromodeler, and the hints & tips department in it, with sketches like this. For a long time his book on control-line models was my bible, and I still have it.

Imagine that he pioneered C/L-models as early as the 1940s in South Africa, I believe. Then went on to editing Aeronmodeler. Then, in his late years, he edited just as comprehensive a book on kites, the building & flying of them. I have that too...

Sketches like these are a beauty in themselves.

Leif

And yes, NOW I checked my email. A million thanks, see email.

**Gil** · #19 08-24-2008, 01:23 PM

Serge,

Amazingly enough your drawing illustrates the method better than it was explained! Rare to find someone who still illustrates by hand, rare talent indeed...,

Best regards,
+Gil

**lee4752** · #20 08-24-2008, 02:27 PM

How about using mulched paper in a mold? Puree some shredded paper with water in an old blender, mix in some white glue and spread into the mold. The mold will have to be sealed. a gloss acrylic finish should do the trick. Then try cooking spray as a mold release agent. I havet tried this yet - read about it somewhere a while back using some other kind of goop - but I dn't see why this wouldn't work here.