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  #11  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:04 PM
rjm rjm is offline
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I found one. " IPMS Color Cross-Reference Guide" by David H. Klaus. Meteor Productions. First printing March 1988. I have the eighth printing Sept 1993. Most of the book is comparing different plastic paint brands and the different countries systems, such as FS 595a/BS 381C/Methuen/RAL/AS 2700. There are tables of most countries giving # & name and comparing to FS #, Example: RLM 03 silbergrau (Silver Gray). 37200 Early overall finish, later replaced by RLM 63. RLM63 Lichtgrau (Light Gray). 38373 close match but add a bit of white. Mostly useful for pl****c modelers.

In the section for scale effect he adds 7% white for 1/32nd, 10% for 1/48th, 15% for 1/72nd and 23% white for 1/144th. Think of a photo of the Blue Ridge Mountains.
Somewhere I've seen that you don't use white for everything , maybe the Cyan Magenta Yellow Black color wheel and pick the color #s and reduce the saturation by about the %'s listed above. Any of you guys tried using white for everything or really light blue (or yellow for planes at LAX)? This could get really complicated.

Cheers, Bob
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2018, 01:36 AM
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Dabeer - thank you for an interesting post. The graphic is a great illustration of the perceptions that occur.

I was interested in the model railway story - I can just imagine that!

I see now that weathering of rolling stock and locos has now become popular (especially in the UK), the appearance of the stock on model layouts is now much more realistic. When weathering items, for some reason, "scale colour" does result - perhaps because weathering is so unrealistic if done in the original shades!

------------------------------------

Bob - thanks for the info.

Did you notice the percentages conform again to those in the table I posted?

I actually have a suspicion this is something someone calculated. Again how people can mix for airbrushes to the exact per cent is beyond me (unless one is willing to waste huge quantities of paint), so my assumption is that these figures are merely a hypothetical guide calculated using some formula. Notice there is never any mention of adjusting for light, terrain (sand, snow), mud etc....

In terms of using other colours, I have done this when I made plastic models - as I mentioned in the post greys, buffs, flesh and similar colour served me well depending in the base colour I wanted to lighten.

I am not an expert - I just whatever paint I thought may work and tested the mix. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it was just weird. Mostly worked though.

I rarely used white, for the simple reason it was too strong or harsh. And you would not use black at all.

At least paper modellers have the advantage that "the paint" costs nothing, and removing the effects take just a click!
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  #13  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:04 PM
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Late to the thread Kevin but what an interesting read! Thank you for taking the time and effort to research and post your article.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2018, 04:17 PM
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In the IPMS Color Reference Guide I mentioned most of what he says about color formulae
mention Ian Huntley as doing the research. He mentions articles by Mr. Huntley in "Scale Models" June 1975, and "Scale Aircraft Modeling" Vol.4#11 and Vol.5#10. I'll see if I have them.
Cheers, Bob
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2020, 01:48 PM
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Earlier the variability on actual colours and accuracy was discussed, and as well as the "real" appearance of the actual paint schemes, some of you may have noticed (when visible) the pattern variation on the Dakotas.

Related in a way to the topic is the insistence of many modelers that the colour scheme patterns must also be 100% accurate in relation to their application and that "real-life" variation does NOT exist!

Pattern variations are in fact common if one looks carefully - recently at an army base I was struck by the clear pattern variability displayed on tanks in current service. A similar situation related to the armoured personal carriers and cars.

Going back to the Dakotas shown earlier (see Post #1, this topic, above), the pattern variability can been seen in the photo of the 3 Dakotas in flight - look at the rudders for example. The patterns are similar, but not the same.

The Dakota profile drawing above the photo of the three Dakotas, also shows the recommended pattern to be applied - while the photo below this of the Dakota in profile again shows more variability.

Moving on I also came today across this old picture from the same period and the same air force. An official pic, hence the black and white shot.



This picture is worth studying as colour variation (even in black and white) can again be seen.

But what is also more interesting here is that while the nine Hunters at a first glance look to have the same camouflage pattern applied, closer examination will show clearly that of the nine, no two are in fact identical!

There is a lot of variation in the width, size and exact placement of the patterns, while the one aircraft (at one o'clock) has a totally arbitrary pattern that does not vaguely resemble any of the others!

The Air Force only had 12 Hunters in service at the time, so this photo shows 75% of them - not one matching the official pattern!

The patterns also morphed and changed over time as the aircraft got given more pain!
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Scale Model Colours-33525800_10157445558192598_109443175520665600_n.jpg  
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  #16  
Old 09-11-2020, 09:45 AM
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And thinking that it would be nice to have a picture of the same aircraft prior to hostilities I found this one.

All 12 aircraft - though one is taking the picture - so there only 11 in the shot!

But still even in a peacetime situation, when people have plenty of time to paint and get things spic and span, you can see all the pattern variability again, although to a lesser degree then in the photo in the post above.

I do know that when repainting the aircraft, the roundels helped to ensure slightly better pattern line-ups.

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Scale Model Colours-hunter-rhod22.jpg  
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  #17  
Old 09-11-2020, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabeer View Post
As it applies to scale modelling, my dad, an HO train modeller, loves to tell the story of how someone brought a model that was painted with the actual paint of the real locomotive, and yet almost everyone complained that it was the wrong color.
As a railroad modeler I have to say Hehehehehe!

Colors did matter to railroads because colors were the corporate identity.

Now, while colors mattered to the railroads, whether colors mattered to the railroaders was sometimes a different story ...
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  #18  
Old 09-20-2020, 08:28 AM
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I just discovered this thread and I find it to be very helpful. One thing that is working in my favor is that I use the color selection feature and choose color from photos, which themselves are taken at a distance from the actual aircraft. Somehow this has been working for me to get a starting point for photoshopping color onto my models.


Photo taken by the aircraft operator Rich Hullina - Slate Falls Airways.
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2020, 09:47 AM
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Spot on Jim - thats exactly the way I do it!

Another reason for me doing it this way is that I am also slightly colour blind!
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2020, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin WS View Post
The SD40 is 53 now!
Totally off on a tangent, although there is the connection that talk of proper hues happens in the model railway world ...

Not only is the SD40 now 53, the -2 has become categorizable as a museum piece ...

https://www.kentuckysteam.org/post/k...0-2-locomotive

No word given yet on whether they will paint it scale black ...

Quote:
June 18, 2020
Irvine Ky - On Thursday, Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation (KSHC) announced that they have acquired SD40-2 locomotive number 6162 from the Norfolk Southern Corporation. In its 42-year career, NS 6162 saw service in the Appalachian coalfields and hauled countless tons of freight through Central Kentucky.
We now return to our regularly scheduled thread.
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