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  #21  
Old 08-23-2011, 06:44 AM
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Tirick Tirick is offline
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Its hard to see in the 3D model, but here is an edited shot showing the direction and placement of the straps (as I've envisioned it). The red/blue is for clarity, and really represents a complete strap in the 'real' world, looping through the seat and around the legs to clamp into the harness buckle.



I hope that clarifies the intent. I've seen some shots showing a 7-point harness, but most have been 5 (including the main strap holding the buckle).

Thank you!
Tirick
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  #22  
Old 08-23-2011, 09:23 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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OK, if you're sure this is how it is done. If not, someone with better knowledge had better chip in. I don't quite recognize it.

The first photo I found after searching for "Parachute harness". Plus the two next, of the "vintage type" and "seat parachute type", respectively. These I recognize (and I now see that I described them incorrectly - goes to show you what memory's worth). The last photo is a classic Irvin Spitfire parachute. It tallies with all of the preceding and would be my choice for a vintage pilot figure, and any seat parachute pilot figure:

WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-fig03.jpg WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-95035.jpg WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-95039.jpg WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-irvin-1.jpg

I do appreciate what you're trying to achieve. Just trying to help. - L.

Last edited by Leif Ohlsson; 08-23-2011 at 09:54 AM.
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  #23  
Old 08-23-2011, 02:33 PM
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rbeach84 rbeach84 is offline
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Loose straps - tenor voice

Tirick, the 'trick' here is to realise that 1) parachute straps must be snug when "ready for action" and 2) when the straps of a seat-pack are snugged up, you cannot walk around upright. Many pictures of standing pilots with their chute on are undoubtedly with the straps loosened and hence hanging a bit. That is what is sometimes confusing.

If you visit this 'PDF' site:
http://www.butlerparachutes.com/PDF/...s%20adjust.pdf
it can help explain how the straps work together. I remember in flight training of being taught to 'squat' a bit to tighten the thigh straps, and even then further tightening was needed after getting into the cockpit. Then, on top of the chute harness, the seat belts made for a very tight feeling when all was "right".

The seat pack actually creates a cloth & belt 'seat' for the wearer so when the chute opens, and the risers orient vertically, the shock is spread across the buttocks and not just around the thighs. These old style chutes have been superceeded by integrated harnesses, for the most part, within the 'fast mover' community. Of course, you are modeling a different era.

Primarily, the lower straps you've depicted appear incorrect since they should more likely pass from the rear between the legs, over the thighs to attach to the pack's short corner straps near the hip. Different designs may have used more strapping and back packs use slightly different strap arrangements but the thigh straps should be pretty standard across the board.

Did you find a specific reference image that you are working from showing the hanging straps?

EDIT: I found this view of a 1940-period "pilot's" seat pack chute & four-point harness (at: The Historic Flying Clothing Company) that looks closer to your design depiction. It lacks the clips or adjustments over the thigh - apparently it is adjusted at the buckles near the quick release in the middle of the chest. This would be awkward to adjust due to the looping of the strap back onto itself, unless there is another point of adjustment that is not evident from this view. Does nicely show the wide 'strap' for the D-ring that would come in from under the left arm - which is *not* a part of the suspension webbing. Note how the shoulder straps hook directly into the quick release fitting.

As you've already noted, there are several different kinds of chutes, so... looking at the second image of an observers, chest-clip style harness you have some standard features such as the riser straps (on the front in this case) plus the 'tangle' of the butt & thigh straps that form the 'basket' in which the body sits. Variations abound, but it appears the RAF didn't figure out to use an "H" strap arrangement (per your original depiction) to take some of the shock load off the quick release until later.

Hope this helps withyour research and doesn't make things more confusing!
Attached Thumbnails
WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-463.jpg   WWII Pilots - Posable, Multiscale-142_raf_observers_pchute_harness.jpg  
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Last edited by rbeach84; 08-23-2011 at 03:13 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-23-2011, 03:13 PM
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Tirick Tirick is offline
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That is a great reference source for the intent of the seat-type design at the very least, even if it is contemporary, it should help, thank you!

Here are (some) of the references I've used, although this discussion thread has encouraged me to rethink my model of it.









Today I also found another, somewhat clearer line drawing of the seat:



Info is sparse on this design, with several grainy photos from the era that do not really help with specifics. It also makes it a bit confusing as the RAAF uses a slightly different design, along with the Luftwaffe and the USAF.

The best 'in situ' photos I've found:





Thank you both for your thoughts on this. I think I will redesign the strap portions at the very least.

Tirick
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2011, 03:47 PM
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Hurrah!

Tirick, to be clear, I am really surprised by your figure designs. Very clever and creative engineering. I am glad you are using good research (which I expect makes it easier to design, knowing how the real objects go together...)

Thanks for sharing your efforts with us!
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2011, 09:11 PM
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Tirick Tirick is offline
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Thank you for your comments! I try very hard to be accurate, or at least as far as I am capable.

I am almost giddy with excitement! I've figured out the harness. I just need to figure out how to model it.

See below:





I've color coded the straps to highlight the positioning and generally show how they attach. For clarity I've removed the thin seat cushion, leaving only the parachute bag, although assume the uncolored center strap is fed through the center of the cushion to hold it in place. All the straps currently modeled here (I've modified it a little from before) are correct.

What I need to add is the strap where I've marked in purple, which loops under the butt/legs, slide-splices over the side/kidney strap (yellow), then crosses at the back to feed through to the parachute. Along the back, holding the parachute straps in place against the support are tearaway (buttons) loops, that I assume release when the parachute opens. The loops over the shoulder (red) are clipped to the parachute strap near the top of the support.

Thank you both for your advice! Now I'm off to try and model that.

Tirick
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  #27  
Old 08-26-2011, 02:36 AM
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Leif Ohlsson Leif Ohlsson is offline
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I'm glad for you. Speaking for myself I would be quite happy with something simple which merely looks alright, mostly from the front. (The pilot, in most cases will be seated and hiding the back anyway).

But I respect your striving for accuracy. As long as it doesn't hinder you from getting there...

-L.
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  #28  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:37 PM
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Part of the impetus is certainly a desire for accuracy, but also, I have a massive thirst for knowledge, and my ignorance in this was getting me a little down. Also, I want at some point to make a parachute for this set, and having a strap design that actually 'works' would be beneficial. Nevertheless, 'tis done. I'll be moving on to the floatation vest, uni jacket and the hats next. I may call it quits on this design then, despite my desire to make a greatcoat.







Enjoy!
Tirick
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  #29  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:19 PM
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nice Job Tirick! i can smell the leather
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  #30  
Old 08-28-2011, 02:05 PM
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Tirick, I think your arrangement in post #21 was most correct, with the 'crotch' loop strap going around the two lower vertical straps. I don't see where there are 'waist belt' straps in your reference images (the pilot getting into the Spit does not have all his straps 'hooked' so the lay of the straps is loose and might be misleading.) Perhaps you are seeing the flight jacket waistband (lighter colored material)?
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