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  #11  
Old 08-23-2013, 01:36 PM
Tom Greensfelder Tom Greensfelder is offline
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I feel very ambivalent about posting this, as I think the forum benefits from good will and an absence of politics, but I find the "Aunt Michelle" image offensive and I'm surprised that a retired member of our armed forces would disrespect the first lady in that way.
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  #12  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:47 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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I agree. I had not previously noticed the image.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2013, 01:37 AM
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cdavenport cdavenport is offline
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I've been gone awhile working on plastic and other things, so imagine my dismay when I find this waiting for me. A number of thoughts coursed through my mind in no particular order.

First, I'm retired, so 1st Amendment rights apply. Even if I wasn't retired, they still apply. Anyway, who appointed you arbiter? In any event, you might have sent a private message instead of throwing down the gauntlet in public. I would have been much more accommodating in my private response to your personal insult.

Second, were you offended with the political model of Dubbyah at the gas pump model that appeared years ago on this forum? I bought and built one...the cat got to it. Perhaps you weren't a member at that time. Look for it so you can be offended by that display of political incorrectness on the forum. Or, perhaps it's acceptable that only Republicans serve as political fodder. I'm just brainstorming some ideas.


Third, as you can see from the attached photo, I was looking for an angry female face to replace the original..I replaced all the originals. This was the only female. So, it popped into my head to do a first lady. Google "angry first lady" and whose image comes up first and often? Michelle Obama. Google "Jackie Kennedy angry" and every other first lady in recent history and see what you get...nice looking first ladies. Michelle is the worst first lady in recent history when it comes to presenting herself in public from her clothing choices to her facial machinations. I used one of the numerous angry photos of her just because I could. She is a glaringly obvious public figure, and as a political appendage, fair game for satire. (Check your history, political cartooning/lampooning is older than our country.) At the time I made this, Hillary hadn't started making faces yet. As a first lady, she did well presenting herself in public. But, subsequent to her Senatorial seat, she's grown a scowl!

Fourth, it's your personal ethic that is in question, not mine, because I had no thought of Aunt (Jemima) Michele until I read your remark. As you can clearly see I made no change to the original body. I was born and raised in a military culture where the only thing that matters is the rank on one's shoulder. I still believe that.

BTW, I acknowledged my use of Michelle in a previous post that you both likely missed: Sortie d'Ecole (School's Out!) There was no cry of offense then. Indeed, you two have been the only offended ones. Perhaps you might try to not be so easily offended by things that don't directly concern you. On the other hand, I may have missed the memo appointing either of you Arbiter of 1st Amendment Rights on the Forum. If so, then, my bad.
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Vintage Decoupage Restoration-2659852596_ecb6ce7bf3_o.jpg  
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Maj Charles Davenport, USAF (Ret)
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2013, 03:30 PM
Tom Greensfelder Tom Greensfelder is offline
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Charles: my responses to your response follow:

Quote:
First, I'm retired, so 1st Amendment rights apply. Even if I wasn't retired, they still apply. Anyway, who appointed you arbiter?
- I am not in any way disputing your 1st Amendment rights. You have a right to display what you want and I have a right to object to it... in this case on the basis of bad taste and casual racism.

Quote:
In any event, you might have sent a private message instead of throwing down the gauntlet in public. I would have been much more accommodating in my private response to your personal insult.
- I considered a private message, but as you had posted the image publicly, I thought it better to reply publicly.

Quote:
Second, were you offended with the political model of Dubbyah at the gas pump model that appeared years ago on this forum? I bought and built one...the cat got to it. Perhaps you weren't a member at that time. Look for it so you can be offended by that display of political incorrectness on the forum. Or, perhaps it's acceptable that only Republicans serve as political fodder.
- I've seen that model, but not on the forum. In any event, it was presented as a clear political comment, not as an image inserted in an otherwise non-political paper model. I think both Republicans and Democrats are open to political satire, but your image had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with making fun of the first lady using a clichéd racial stereotype.

Quote:
Third, as you can see from the attached photo, I was looking for an angry female face to replace the original..I replaced all the originals. This was the only female. So, it popped into my head to do a first lady. Google "angry first lady" and whose image comes up first and often? Michelle Obama. Google "Jackie Kennedy angry" and every other first lady in recent history and see what you get...nice looking first ladies. Michelle is the worst first lady in recent history when it comes to presenting herself in public from her clothing choices to her facial machinations. I used one of the numerous angry photos of her just because I could. She is a glaringly obvious public figure, and as a political appendage, fair game for satire. (Check your history, political cartooning/lampooning is older than our country.) At the time I made this, Hillary hadn't started making faces yet. As a first lady, she did well presenting herself in public. But, subsequent to her Senatorial seat, she's grown a scowl!
- I know you don't know this, but I made my living at one time as an editorial cartoonist, so I'm very well aware of the tradition of political lampooning. There is a big difference between political satire and attacking someone for their appearance, especially women. That counts as sexism.

Quote:
Fourth, it's your personal ethic that is in question, not mine, because I had no thought of Aunt (Jemima) Michele until I read your remark. As you can clearly see I made no change to the original body.
- I said nothing about "Aunt Jemima"... just that I found the image offensive. That you interpreted it that way just reinforces my point about your unconscious and casual racism. These are stereotypes that are familiar because of our history of oppression, but that does not make them acceptable.

Quote:
Perhaps you might try to not be so easily offended by things that don't directly concern you. On the other hand, I may have missed the memo appointing either of you Arbiter of 1st Amendment Rights on the Forum. If so, then, my bad.
- The persistence of any form of racial stereotyping concerns me, as it should you. The greatness of this country lies in its ability to be a homeland for everyone regardless of race, sex, or religion. That requires that we face prejudice when we find it. To repeat what I said before, you have a perfect right to express yourself however you want... as do I.
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  #15  
Old 10-12-2013, 08:47 AM
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ashevilleangler ashevilleangler is offline
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Thanks Tom for a well-measured and insightful response. I for one would like to see my country return to being the "United" States of America not the "Red" and "Blue" states of polarization. A respectful discussion of our differences does not include racial stereotypes.

Thanks again for pointing that out in your reply.

Curt
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  #16  
Old 10-12-2013, 11:08 AM
themainecooncat themainecooncat is offline
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I do some restoration work for my self and I'm not sure if others would appreciate my amateur efforts, but for my own use it's ok. Once again, I have to say your work of restoration is exceptional
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  #17  
Old 03-14-2014, 04:47 PM
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Diderick A. den Bakker Diderick A. den Bakker is offline
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Anyone interested in vintage Epinal originals: see my new thread, Imagerie d'Epinal.
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