Test Build of F2G-1 "Super" Corsair Military Version

[member_3]

I have agreed to do a test build of Will Aldrich's latest variation on the "Super" Corsair; this time the original military version. If you are not familiar with Will's designs see the various threads (here and on Z) involving the #57 and #74 racing versions and the alpha build(s) I did for his hypothetical racer "Mr. Hyde." All are available from Germir Models or from ecardModels.com.

This thread will get off to a slow start since both Will and I will be on the road (separately) for the next week or two. While waiting for the new files I will be starting on the cockpit and center wing framework which is identical to the existing models.

Hopefully I will be able to get through the build without injury and we will all be able to enjoy another of Will's fantastic designs. I know there are other (more talented) builders out there more qualified to do this than I am so give Will a shout if you want to give it a go.

CAUTION: The first part of this build will be done using parts from the #57 and/or #74 racers so the part numbers referenced may not be the part numbers used on the military model. Some details may also change from what you see here and I will try to note those if/when they occur. For instance, I am not sure if the cockpit details for the military version will be the same as the racers.

I intend to have some fun trying to do a respectable job for Will. Those of you familiar with my haphazard (and sometimes incomplete) build threads might get a good laugh too...I know I will.

[member_3]

A secondary effort will be to document the build in a step-by-step fashion so that a detailed set of instructions can be produced in .pdf form. If I get a little too basic or preachy for some of you (more experienced modelers) please bear with me as I intend to write them so that even I can understand and follow them.

[dansls1]

This should be interesting to follow - both because of interest in the final aircraft and interest in seeing you put the instructions together :P

[Don Boose]

Go Navy!

Don

[Willja67]

Ron,

The cockpit of #57 as far as I know (1949 version) was the same as the military with differences being so small as to be unnoticeable except for the gunsight and the eyebrow armament switches wich will not require any changes to #57 in order to build they will simply be add ons.

[member_3]

Thanks, Will.

Let's get this show on the road...

DISCLAIMER - I used this opportunity to practice my recoloring skills so the colors you see here may not match the current racing Corsairs or the finished military version. This has been done without the designer's knowledge or permission so do not bombard Will with, "Your chromate yellow is way off, man!" sort of comments. MY chromate yellow is RGB E7D74E and the Glossy Sea Blue is 2E 2EA468 (and I'm not pleased with that.)

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-01.jpg

See above - Pages 1 and 2 ready to be laminated. Note that a portion of page 2 is to be removed prior to lamination. I used comic book backing boards as my lamination material and 3M 77 as an adhesive. The important thing here is that the lamination material be no thicker than 1/32 inch. DO NOT USE 1MM! Will's designs are dead on as far as dimensions and the thickness of the laminated parts is critical.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-02.jpg

See above - All the 'A' parts laminated, rough cut and marked up. I highlighted the slots to avoid cutting the wrong half of the slot. I find it is best to cut the slot first, then cut the remainder of the piece. I also note where parts join each other just to keep the build geometry fresh in my mind.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-03.jpg

See above - All the 'A' parts after finish cutting. The areas to be removed on piece A4 (instrument panel) should be done first and then the outer edge cut done very carefully. There is a slit that needs to be cut where the center post meets the floor line. This will allow B1 (cockpit liner) to slide through. A2 has two bends in it that require scoring. The upper bend is scored from the front, the lower one from the rear. I recommend a shallow (about halfway through) knife cut for each of these.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-04.jpg

See above - Same as previous except this shows (parts in green) the gussets and A5 floor ledge that I added to insure the bulkheads are perpendicular to the center frame A1 and to give support to B1 where it meets A5 (aft cockpit bulkhead.) These parts are not in Will's design and are purely optional and homemade.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-05.jpg

See above - At this point, A2 and A5 have been glued in place using the green gussets and the homemade ledge pieces have been glued at the floor line on A5 forming a ledge to which the rear of B1 can be glued. Cockpit liner B1 has been cut, back-scored on the sides and front and is being test fitted with A3 sitting in place. Make sure you test fit this now before things become irreversible.

[member_3]

Continuing on...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-06.jpg

See above - B1 has been scored on the sides and front and is now being slid through the slit in A4. A4 is quite fragile at this point so care is needed.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-07.jpg

See above - B1 is all the way through and side posts of A4 are settled in the notches at the sides of B1.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-08.jpg

See above - First I glued the front vertical section of B1 to bulkhead A3 ensuring the bottom was flush and the top of B1 was on the alignment line on A3. When dry I glued the A3/A4/B1 assembly to A1 with the rear of B1 being glued to the ledge I had installed at the floor line on A5 (rear cockpit bulkhead.)

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-09.jpg

See above - The wing center section formers were installed in the following order:

First - A8 (printed side facing aft), ensuring that the top of A8 was parallel with the bottom crease on A2. The crease will be about 1mm above the top of A8 but they should be parallel.

Second - A9 (printed side forward), ensuring that it is not tilted with relation to A8 when viewed from behind.

Third - A7 (printed side forward), ensuring that it is not tilted with relation to A8 when viewed from ahead.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-10.jpg

See above - Same point in the build viewed from the front. A7, A8 and A9 are pretty vulnerable at this point so exercise care in handling until we strengthen them (out of sequence.)

That's about it for a week until I get back from the Bay State...have fun until then.

[GreMir]

Excellent start!
Keep them coming Ron - there is never enough aircraft build thread out there (my P.11c and Hien got stalled - not enough hours in a day lately... :()

[Don Boose]

Ouststanding! Superb photos and description. I am saving the whole thing in hopes of doing a future build.

Bravo Zulu, Ron!

Don

[Willja67]

Thanks a bunch for doing this Ron. You are off to a great start.

Btw I'm wrestling with the decision of wether or not to design folding mechanism for the wings. I think I probably will because you can't have a carrier plane without folding wings but it will be a pain in butt.

Just for a little update I managed to design the new interior of the tailcone while waiting at the airport cause my plane was broke and had to wait for another. So it's coming along.

[dansls1]

You know, I suppose this counts as a semi-hijack - but this kit would lend itself to lasercut frames tremendously. Is anybody in the US doing them that there's potential for that?

[redhorse]

It looks great. I'm having fun already watching this one!!

[Willja67]

Ron the first page of parts should be in your inbox.

This is going to be a really mixed up plane. I cant remember which is which (-1 or -2) but BuNo88454 is the land based version and it's going to have a tailhook on it and it has the serial number (under the horizontal stab)fictional Bunker Hill. Other than the serial number it has the current paint job of #454 and I'm going to send Ron the parts to put the bomb racks and rocket launchers on it which it doesn't currently have installed. I'm also having Ron build the head rest into the model which also is currently not installed on 454. I also think I'm going to have Ron build the model with one wing folded and one extended.

[Willja67]

Double post sorry. Hate slow internet connections.

[dansls1]

... I also think I'm going to have Ron build the model with one wing folded and one extended.

That means Ron should come up with a nice carrier deck base with a couple guys on it working on the plane to display it on ;)

As far as mixed up numbers, painting and configurations - I believe there was so much scrounging for parts and such during war times that almost any story you can come up with to have a plane number or paint job off would probably be somewhat possible, IMHO.

[Willja67]

Ron I have been unable to resist the temptation to do some upgrades to the design of the wing. Most of the frame still works but replacement for C5 parts will be forthcoming.

I bet Mike is just shaking his head right now.

[GreMir]

I think everybody familiar with your work was waiting for this statement :D

[Willja67]

For those of you familiar with the kit you'll be able to see the differences. I have finished the redesign of the exterior skin on the inboard (curved) portion of the wing.

This is basically the design I'm using for the Super Detailed Super Corsair. The main difference is that the Super Detailed versions geometry is more accurate. I left the innacuracies in the shape because it would have required a total redesign of the wing structure, this way the only internal portion I had to rework was the forward bay of the landing gear.

Forward of the main spar I have colocated one seam onto a panel line and made both seams so they attach to the gear bay walls. The old design was somewhat tricky to build because the seams in some places had nothing under them. I think this will make construction easier and more precise. Aft of the main spar I totally eliminated one seam and colocated another with a panel line. I think it will look better as well

[member_3]

The OldTroll has safely returned from his birthplace (the great state of New England, Massachusetts chunk) and will be resuming this build in the next day or so.

[cgutzmer]

Welcome back!
Chris

[member_3]

Well, vacation is over - time to get back to work. Will sent me the new fuselage mid-section skins so we need to get this section ready for skinning!

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-11.jpg
See above - Here you can see the right cockpit panel and the stick. The seat is also glued in place.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-12.jpg
See above - Here you can see the location of joiner strip B17. This provides the base for the C4/C5 skin joint.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-13.jpg
See above - Another view of cockpit and seat. Note the "ledges" at the upper edge of the cockpit walls. These are pieces B18L and B18R. They are folded to a narrow "V" and glued in place with the wide side toward the bottom of the cockpit.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-14.jpg
See above - Here you can see the right side panel and control quadrant. The seat belts have also been added - almost time to close it up!

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-15.jpg
See above - Same point in construction showing the belts a little better.

Next installment - the dreaded B16!

[member_3]

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-16.jpg
See above - the dreaded (and much misunderstood) piece B16. This provides the interior for the cockpit section forward of the instrument panel as well as support for the C1/C4 and C3/C4 skin joints.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-17.jpg
See above - B16 should be pre-shaped with the printed side facing inward.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-18.jpg
See above - Here B16 is being test fitted. Note that the aft end of B16 MUST GO UNDER THE TABS ON B4!! If it is outside those tabs the skins will not fit. The aft end of B16 butts up against the rear of the instrument panel and the forward edge should be even with the forward edge of B3.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-19.jpg
See above - B16 has been glued in place. Note that I have started coloring the joiner strips where the skin joints will be.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-20.jpg
See above - Same point in construction from a different viewpoint. I should note here that it is easier to install the B8/B9 rudder pedal assembly before gluing B16 in place. I got so carried away with the whole B16 drama that I forgot to do that.

Next time - will the OldTroll work up enough courage to start the (non-reversible) skinning process??? Stay tuned...

[Don Boose]

I'm back after a few days, too (work, not vacation) and am glad to see progress continuing. This is one that I'm saving in hopes of trying my hand once you and Will work out the details and any bugs. Bravo Zulu, Super Squid!

Dogface

[GreMir]

Ron,
Excellent work!

[member_3]

Aaaaaargh!!! - Anywhere in the last 10 pictures where I refer to C# skins it should have been D# skins. Bad troll, no biscuit!!

[billy.leliveld]

Nice going Ron, I'll be watching, Will's stuff is just great :cool:

[member_3]

Here we go...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-21.jpg
See above - While there are at least three different ways to sequence the skinning, I prefer starting with D4 which runs from the instrument panel bulkhead to the rear cockpit bulkhead. Glue this skin only at the upper edge. This will allow a tiny bit of "fudge factor" at the bottom when the forward and rear skins are glued in place.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-22.jpg
See above - D4 from below.

Leaving for lunch - the drama continues anon...

[ashevilleangler]

Ron, I do so wish that I had seen this prior to beginning my build! Oh Well! I'll have updates to post soon as well including a clear canopy......, I hope! Keep up the great work!

Cecil

[member_3]

Cecil - I have been known to purchase vacu-formed canopies in multiples. Any chance you (or Shrike) might peddle them to the vacuum challenged?

[member_3]

Back from lunch at "Quaker Steak & Lube" - pretty fine grub and a two-story mug of Guinness! Now onward and upward...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-23.jpg
See above - Again, there are a couple different ways to do this - I am showing you the way that works for me. I first assemble the entire forward skin (D3 bottom joined by D2R to D1 top with D2L attached to D! but nothing else.) The cowling joiner strip (F1) must be attached to D1 now. Will, you might consider changing the letter designation on that piece to a D series. When putting this skin on, slip it over the wing rear spar and wrap it around the fuselage. If all has gone well it will butt nicely against the front edge of D4 and the D1/D3 joint on the left side will match perfectly. More about this later...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-24.jpg
See above - DISCLAIMER - this photo shows modifications to Will's design, so pay no attention to rearmost section of the fuselage. Here we have D4 (previously glued) with the forward (D1/D2) skin in place (not glued) and the rear (D5/D6) section slid in place (not glued.) I found no fit problems at all but there is a graphic alignment problem (shown/discussed below.) Any gaps are because this is a test fit and the sections are not yet glued in place.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-25.jpg
See above - Same status as the previous photo from the other side.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-26.jpg
See above - Bottom showing the perfect alignment of panel lines at the D4/D5 joining.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-27.jpg
See above - Right side with the panel line at the top aligning but the aft portion of the "4" is about 1mm high.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-28.jpg
See above - Left side with the panel line at the top aligning but the aft portion of the "4" is also about about 1mm high. Based on the fact that the bottom pair of panel lines match and the top panel lines match (and there is no "slack" in the assembly) I believe the portions of the "4" on skin D5 need to be moved down 1 mm. There was no alignment problem at the D4/D3 joining forward.

Will, my intent is to hold skinning at this point so you can evaluate/move things and then I will try the new D5 skin when you can get it to me.

When I do that I will build the D5/D6 section as designed and will discuss my proposed alternate method at that time.

As with all Will's designs - fit is perfect if you don't build like a troll.

[Ron0909]

Ron, What an amazing job! This beast is going to be a definite beauty. I`m off to buy a Mastercard gift card to prepare my Paypal. Anyways, this blow by blow build will be so ideal for any of us who want to *try* to follow your lead.
Thanks!

Ron

[member_3]

More disclaimers...

Many of the build techniques and sequences here are not mine but have been "borrowed" from the definitive F2G Super Corsair #57 build thread (http://www.zealot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146094&highlight=corsair) by Rick Whitt on anuzzer forum in a galaxzy far, far away. I consider it a prime reference for building any of Will's brilliant Super Corsairs.

Having said that, someone needs to remind me about a few things when I resume:

1. Scoring tabs on D2R and D2L.
2. Scoring on skins D4 and D5.
3. Alternate methods of joining D5 to D6, D6 to the "E" (tail) assembly and the inner/outer skins of the tail.

I would love to see clear canopy vacs for #57, #74, Mr. Hyde and of course, this beast. If there is a daring entrepreneur out there who might tackle such a task please contact me (or maybe Chris at eCardmodels.)

[cgutzmer]

I will touch base with Shrike about canopies - I have a few in the works with him and forget if this is one of them :)
Chris

[member_3]

Let me remind myself about the scoring...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-29.jpg
See above - the yellow lines indicate scores that must be made. The ones on D5 will form glue tabs for the aft canopy deck(?), shelf(?) piece C12. The long scores at the upper edges of D4 fold inward to form the upper edge of the cockpit. The short scores at the upper forward corner of D4 form an "ear" which folds down into the cockpit.

The scores on the D2L and D2R tabs are back scores. These are folded down to lie perpendicular to the fuselage skin and form a gluing surface for the wing root skins. This same thing will be done on pieces F3L and F3R at the leading edge of the wing.

[Willja67]

Well Ron that's the reason I asked for a test build to make sure it all worked. I'll try and get it fixed for you. I might try and send you white inboard wing sections just to see if it all fits if that's all right.

Great job so far and thank you.

[member_3]

Will - bring it on! And don't forget the new wheel well liners (C5) - the spars are flapping in the breeze! :)

[member_3]

OK - back in the saddle again! Will sent the corrected D5 skins and some white wing root pieces. We'll try them now...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-30.jpg
See above - as you can see, the alignment problem with numeral four at the D4/D5 joint has been corrected...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-31.jpg
See above - on both sides! You can see the new wheel well liner pieces in place also.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-32.jpg
See above - thse are the new wing root skins. If you have either the #57 or #74 racers you will note the differences in how Will has sectioned them. I have highlighted the borders to accent the seams (which all fall on natural panel lines, I believe.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-33.jpg
See above - the new wheel well liners from the underside. They also provide part of the underlayment for the skins. Will tells me there will be a more complete "underskin" in the final version.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-34.jpg
See above - Here is the top of the jigsaw puzzle spot glued in place. Any fit problems here are my fault, NOT the design. As can be seen, I started the 'F' series structure (forward fuselage and cowling) in order to get the forward wing skin supports in place.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-35.jpg
See above - The bottom of the puzzle. My sloppy assembly of the wing spar/wheel well walls assembly came back to haunt me here. These skin pieces really do all fit perfectly - just not with the foundation I gave them.

I have requested a couple corrections, clarifications and additions regarding the rear fuselage, wing flaps and proposed folded wing from Will and I think while waiting for all that I will do another fuselage up to this point. This worked well on the test build of "Mr. Hyde" and should provide a better fitting foundation for the rest of the aircraft.

[Retired_for_now]

Serious effort - shows in the final result. Looking good -

Yogi

[member_3]

Will has advised me to halt the production line until the latest revisions have reached me. In the meantime, he clarified what the current project actually is...

The F2G-1 was land-based and had manually folding wings, four machine guns and no tail hook. the F2G-2 was to be carrier-based with power folding wings, six guns, tail hook and a slightly smaller diameter prop. The racing #74 is pretty close to a F2G-1.

The model Will has me building is a hybrid F2G-1/F2G-2 in order to test the modifications necessary to represent both types. When the test build is over there will be two different models - the F2G-1 in the NATC Patuxent scheme shown here and the F2G-2 in a fictitious carrier-based scheme to be named later.

Anyway - sit back and relax, the build will begin again soon.

[Willja67]

Since I have models of the other 2 surviving Supers I decided that I should make a model of the last one. The model I'm having Ron test build is going to be a hybrid of BuNo88454 during it's flight test phase and as it is now along with the addition of the tail cone off the carrier based version so I don't have to have him build 3 different models.

So in short Rons model will be the current paintjob with rocket launchers and bomb racks and a carrier versions tailcone all of which was never seen together at the same time on this plane.

Below are pics of BuNo88454 in chronological order (maybe a little error)

Phase 1

The first 2 pics are obviously of the plane when it was still property of the US Navy. The picture showing the number 454 below the cockpit and the NATC designation is close to it's paintjob at the present time and probably post dates the picture where 454 is painted on the cowling. As you can see in the picture with 454 on the cowling the aircraft is equipped with bomb racks and rocket launchers.

Phase 2 (pics 2 and 3)

This phase of the aircrafts life is a little muddled in my mind. It ended up in storage and forgotten about I think. It was discovered and the guy who found it bought it or at least claimed ownership and decided he was going to race it and painted it white. The Navy found out about it and confiscated the aircraft. I beleive at this point it was given to a Marine Aviation museum in Virgina somewhere who then traded it for an SBD (it might have been a different type of aircraft)

phase 3 (last picture)

The museum traded it to Doug Champlin who had it on display for several years until he sold his entire collection to the Museum of Flight in Seattle where it currently resides

[Willja67]

The irresistible temptation to modify things is the reason why I told Ron to hold off on the next build.

the fuselage between the cockpit and the firewall has some pretty big innacuracies in it and so I'm correcting them. One of the reasons I decided to do this is that it had a big impact on the shape of the carb intake so I thought it prudent. I have a fair amount done on the wing redesign and am starting in on the folding mechanism. If I'm lucky I can have the new fuselage stuff to Ron before i go to bed tonight.

[member_3]

New parts received, corrections to new parts received, additional new parts received, build #2 underway. Since nothing changed in the cockpit area and I have adequately(?) demonstrated my ability to build same, I will not be doing the cockpit again, especially in light of the fact that this will be a couple different birds rolled into one. Right side F2G-1 folded, left side F2G-2 unfolded, flaps down? LOL

[Willja67]

Yep sounds right

[Willja67]

Just been thinking about it Ron and the main motivation for having it built in addition to testing new parts (admittedly the project has evolved since I asked) was to have a model to photograph for the sale page. The way I wanted it done imho would have looked good enough for a sale page.

But if you want to do it this way I can't fault you for not wanting to build everything more than once. Do you want to build a finished version or should I farm it out?

[member_3]

Oh, I'll probably end up building it more than once anyway but I'm much more dependable at testing new parts fit than I am at finishing a whole model. I will gladly step aside for someone else to do the "photo shoot" copy and concentrate my efforts on checking out the new parts for either/both versions.

[Willja67]

Okay then who wants to build a photo shoot worthy version? I'll hold off sending parts till Ron has validated them that way you'll only have to build once.

[member_3]

Just so you don't think this thread is dead - Will is currently resolving some wing fold geometry issues and has asked me not to restart until they are resolved and the new parts have been sent...

[Willja67]

I'm just an hour or 2 of work away from being able to send Ron the parts so hopefully this evening I'll be able to send them off. Little thing called work getting in the way right now. Have to leave in the next ten minutes.

[Willja67]

Ron has the parts to at least get the fuselage built and I'm close to having the underlayment of the inboard wing skin done at which point I can send him the wing skin and we can see a model that looks like a corsair.

I'm thinking that if Ron continues to document the build the way he has then I won't have to make diagrams, I'll just use all the pics he's taking and make a PDF set of instructions.

[Willja67]

Can anyone give me CMYK values for glossy sea blue and insignia blue? I have been to a website listed before and used those values but Ron says that it isn't turning out so well on his computer. He has given me HTML values but I can't use those (Does Corel use HTML?) so I'd appreicate any help you can give.

[member_3]

The HTML value I have for Glossy Sea Blue is 2E4A68 but I cannot get a translation to CYMK in PSP (possibly because I'm not familiar enough with the software.) Insignia Blue HTML is 263032. These values are from a color cross-reference chart that p*****c modelers use.

EDIT - a friend with Photoshop says

Glossy Sea Blue C-88, M-69, Y-38, K-23
Insignia Blue C-77, M-63, Y-61, K-60

I have most of the 'A' parts laminated and cut so the second public build should show some progress this weekend. I have reconsidered my "no cockpit" decision and will be treating this as a photo worthy build. Please do not let this discourage any of you far more talented builders from answering Will's call for a "cover model."

I can tell you that the inner wing framework components have this old troll pushed to his limits of cutting ability - you'll see what I mean. Will has indicated that there will be two sets of wing components (folded and unfolded) so you will have to decide up front which way you want to build it (unless you just build it both ways...LOL)

More to come soon - stay tuned!

[Willja67]

The complexity level of this model has definately jumped a notch or 2 at least where the inboard wings are concerned.

[member_3]

In case it got missed in my edit of an earlier post...

A friend with Photoshop translated my HTML as follows:

Glossy Sea Blue C-88, M-69, Y-38, K-23
Insignia Blue C-77, M-63, Y-61, K-60

[Willja67]

Since you already have parts with the wrong color I'll wait till the finished version before changing it but thanks that helps.

[member_3]

Will - don't be too quick to change colors. I have printed parts in your GSB, the color reference's GSB and a "GSB" that just looked good to me. While the HTML/CYMK/RGB values may be correct technically, the scale of the models definitely change the way the human eye perceives the colors. I know when I was in p*****c modeling there were a number of papers published by experts in the field talking about the effects of scale on the perception/interpretation of color by the human eye. I would treat the given values as a starting point and then make changes as necessary to "look right" in 1:32 scale. (Besides, if I don't like it, I'll just recolor mine - LOL)

[member_3]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the forum...here is Public Build #2 (PB2) of the not a Mustang.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-36.jpg

See above - Here we are, more or less where we left off with PB1 but with a bunch of revised and new parts from Will. There was a subtle change to the shape of the foremost bulkhead (A2) and changes to the outboard ends of the spars (A7, A8 and A9) to accommodate the folded wings. There are also some new parts on the wing but I'll show them later. At this point the cockpit is missing only the seat/belts, headrest and stick. I wanted to get on with the new stuff so I will finish up the cockpit shortly. Will had corrected the minor alignment problems with the numerals and insignia and I can confirm that the fit of the skins and the alignment of panel lines and markings is dead on.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-37.jpg

See above - A few more things evident in this photo are the closing in of the area behind the headrest and the lower frame for the windscreen. As you can see in the following photos I threw a canopy together to check fit and for possible use as a mold pattern should I give the "heat and pull" method of canopy forming a try. At any rate, the frame piece that is glued on the fuselage would actually be the last canopy piece to be glued in place but I wanted tosee how everything fit and glued it only to the fuselage and not the windscreen.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-38.jpg

See above - Here is the canopy set in place. The fit is so good that it "clicks" in place and the model can be inverted and the canopy stays in place. Nice job, Will!! The new wing root plate rib and some of the new parts can be seen here (and are enlarged in the next photo.)

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-391.jpg

See above - Changes to accommodate the folded wings include the following:
>> New wheel well liners with a slightly modified shape (C5R, C5L)
>> New spars (A7, A8 and A9) with a thin slot added to accept the plate rib (double thickness card) and the addition of new spar tips on A7 and A8 that have holes (to accept the outer panels?) DO THE HOLES BEFORE CUTTING AROUND THEM. I recommend hardening them with a drop of thin CA adhesive as they are very susceptible to getting "dinged". The same is true for the thin extension at the bottom rear of the plate rib. The is a triangular piece (with 2 holes) that gets glued to the front of A8. Up front is a separate panel for the plate rib that needs to be curved and installed at a slight angle. This apparently was necessary to provide clearance for the outer wing panel when folding/unfolding. Just ahead of that is a double-thick card piece that ties the plate rib to the front edge of C5. Some of the bits involved are stressing my "fiddly bit" envelope but I haven't run screaming from the workbench (yet!)

NOTE FOR THE DESIGNER ONLY! - Will, I added half tabs to the rear of C5 and half slots on A9 where C5 joins. I felt this was a stronger join than the butt joint. You might want to incorporate this feature...

The plan for the next couple days is to finish the cockpit, add the section from the current front of the fuselage to the firewall (F8) which should include the new intake. At that point the wing roots will be ready to start checking the fit of the new inner and outer skin pieces. Once I have one of the wing roots checked I will probably finish up the new rear fuselage. Stay tuned; there's lots more fun to come!

[Willja67]

That is some clean work Ron! I don't know why you expressed doubt about your ability to produce a photo quality model.

[member_3]

My doubts were not about my building ability, just about my ability to stay focused long enough to actually finish a project... ;)

[GreMir]

Great job, Ron!
This is going to be one mean looking not-a-Mustang :D

[Willja67]

NOTE FOR THE DESIGNER ONLY! - Will, I added half tabs to the rear of C5 and half slots on A9 where C5 joins. I felt this was a stronger join than the butt joint. You might want to incorporate this feature...


Yeah I keep thinking about that every time I look at A9 or C5 but for some reason don't do it. Before the end I'll do that.

[Don Boose]

That IS first rate work, Ron. This airplane would look great alongside an F8B-1 and an F14C2.

Don

[solo67]

ron &will this is fantastic work your doing witing to see more of that later on.

[Bomarc]

Just hurry up and finish the damn thing so I can buy it! :)

Looks great Ron. I love the back and forth between designer and builder to zero in on problems. All QA/QC departments should be this thorough!

Back to work you!

Mike

[cgutzmer]

looks great! this is gonna be a great addition to the corsair stable :)
Chris

[Willja67]

Don, Moshe, and Chris, thank you for your interest and comments.

Mike, after watching your awe inspiring Mitchell build (sorry for not commenting) it is an honor to have such a talented builder wanting to get his hands on it. I shall do my best to get it out ASAP.

[birder]

This looks great:)

[member_3]

Mike (Bomarc) - you won't like this one...all the parts fit! :D

[Michael Mash]

I like your aircraft work Ron. Lets see more.
Mike

[Bomarc]

...all the parts fit! :D

Well, where the heck is the challenge in that Ron? ;)

Actually, a well fitting kit would be a blessing right about now. With the pains you and Will are taking to get this kit right, I've no doubt it will fall together as it emerges from my printer, no cutting required!

Now stopping reading this and get back to work....wings man, wings!!

Mike

[member_3]

Time to show a little more progress...

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-40.jpg
See above - These are the parts that make up the most forward non-engine part of the fuselage. Hopefully they will make more sense with the annotated photos below.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-41.jpg
See above - There are three areas where the exhaust pipes exit the engine cowling proper and make their way to the outside. The forward bulkhead (F8) has a cutout on either side and one at the bottom where the panels (F4R, F4L and F6) taper inward from rear to front. The tabs on F8 provide the locations for the exhaust group dividers (F5 on the sides and F7 on the bottom.) I found it easiest to assemble the main ring (F2) and then fit the F4s and F6 in place. I then glued F8 flush with the front of the F2 ring taking care to snuggle all the folds at the edges of the openings and at the tabs firmly in place. This assembly was then slid in place, mating with the foremost cockpit assembly skin. The fit of all of this was perfect thanks to our fearless designer. After the F2 assembly was glued in place I glued on the exhaust divider fairings F5 and F7 at the locations indicated on F4 and F6.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-42.jpg
See above - Bottom view showing F6, F7 and the locations for the leading edge glue tab pieces F3R and F3L (not yet glued in place here.)

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-43.jpg
See above - The engine cowling proper has been reworked to move the join line to the bottom since the missing racing intake no longer hides it. The firewall (F9) must be positioned with its aft edge flush with the forward edge of the cowl flaps. I simply drew a pencil line .375" in before forming the ring. Note that I have punched holes for the exhaust pipes - this is not per Will's design. His pipes glue to the surface of F9 at the indicated positions. I felt like I wanted an attachment that could be adjusted before gluing so I punched the holes in anticipation of making the pipes a little overlength, inserting them in the holes, adjusting the angle and then hitting the join with a little CA.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-44.jpg
See above - "My what a big nose you have!", said Goldilocks. Here is the cowling dry fitted in place. The designer has approved my decision not to do the full (or any part of) the engine since that assembly has not changed so I used the dummy engine plate to speed things along.

The new intake can be seen at the top of the F2 ring assembly and I must confess to having botched that up. I had already assembled the F2 assembly and attached it to the cockpit assembly before I got the new intake parts and instructions from Will. As a result, I had to some surgery in that area and could not get a flush join between the outer intake skin and the top of the cockpit assembly. The gap showing there is my bad, not the designer's and a test run of the parts in a mockup of that area shows the intake to fit properly (when assembled properly.)

I need to get both sides of the plane up to the same stage of completion so will be working on that for a couple days. The advent of new MMO (Aion) over the weekend may impact my building hours but I'll get my priorities straightened out in a couple days...

Thanks to all for the positive comments and encouragement. As is the case with all of Will's designs, "If it doesn't fit, the builder did something wrong!"

[Willja67]

As is the case with all of Will's designs, "If it doesn't fit, the builder did something wrong!"


Excellent work thus far Ron. But a clarification is in order: A released kit that has been test built fits if done right, the new parts I have created for this still have a question mark hanging over them until such time as your build either shows them to work or corrections are made THEN they all fit the next time around.

But thanks for the vote of confidence.

[Bomarc]

The designer has approved my decision not to do the full (or any part of) the engine since that assembly has not changed so I used the dummy engine plate to speed things along.


What....!? :(

Well, if help's getting this beast to press sooner. The cowling looks great Ron, as does the whole so far.

Mike

[member_3]

Well there is unpleasant news...the initial pass at skinning the wing root area did not go well at all. It appears that the problems are due to inexact cutting/assembly on my part of the spars, wheel well liners and new fold joint rib. I noticed that the depth of the spars did not match the depth of the ribs where they intersect but closed my eyes to it thinking that it wasn't off by that much...<<heavy sigh>>...I should have known better.

The plan is to build a test section without including the whole fuselage as built to date. Once I have determined if it was my error or if Will needs to do some adjusting to the new parts then I will start Public Build #3 (PB#3) and do it right. That will also allow me to correct some other shortcomings of the previous build (intake, cowling) and move on from there. On the plus side, I am getting pretty quick at getting the fuselage/wing root assembly put together having done it six or seven times now...

I hope to have the test section proofed out by the middle of the week and will post more then.

[Zathros]

This thread is like being able to go backstage at a really good concert!

[kenlwest]

Fantastic build. I am eyeballing the wing structure... appears plenty adequate. I see the wing folding brackets - I assume this will have the wings in the "up" position?

Ken

[member_3]

Will tells me there will two options - folded and unfolded each of which will have unique parts in the area of the fold. I suspect the unfolded version will use essentially the same parts that the racing versions use although I have not yet seen them. This test build will have the wings folded and, to the best of my knowledge, they will be fixed in that position.

[Willja67]

It's interesting when you model something how you begin to see the reasoning behind the design of what you are modeling. In trying to get all the parts to work with each other I had to tweak the little door that opens over the main hinge on the wing and found that the shape and proportion matched the pictures more than the drawings I had.

The unfolded version will be essentially the same spars as the racer versions. It was my intent to make the spars with cut marks so only one set of parts was needed and you just cut according to what you wanted to build, but I found that was going to be really difficult to make it easy for everyone to understand so I'll just make a set of parts for each option.

[kenlwest]

I find that one of the problems I have in designing models is trying to get into the perspective of the builder. What may seem a "no-brainer" to the designer, may be a confusing delema to the builder.

Anyway, great model, and great build!

Ken

[member_3]

Well, here I am a week later and nothing to show for it. My plan of doing a partial test build just for checking wing skin fit doesn't work because the wing skins also depend on the fuselage skins being there. Having decided to go ahead and start Public Build #3 (PB3) I was then attacked by the "cob-wobblies", "blue funk", "the blahs" or whatever and have not felt like doing anything productive, especially if it involves mental or physical effort. That seems to have passed and I am feeling more like a human being again (which is strange for a troll) and hope to get back in the saddle tomorrow.

Will - a consideration might be to extend the ends of the C5 pieces to include a slot to engage A9 and an extension shaped like the piece that provides proper airflow for the flaps. this would align the C5/F9 joint and provide support for that curved rear piece. Just a thought...

[Willja67]

Ron, I totally understand the builders block. I have been having designers block to some extent. I went out of town for work this past week and fortunately for those interested in this project it means that the only thing I have to do in the evenings is work on this project. I had been having some hangups on the outer panel portion of the wing fold but I got it a little further along.

Your idea about the C5 parts is a good one and will be incorporated. Build as you get to it but I might have those for you in time for PB3. Email me right before you're ready for them and I'll let you know if they are ready.

But I must confess a much larger Super Corsair has been gettign a lot of my time lately. She's really close to being ready for her first flight!

[member_3]

You better have a video of that first flight when it happens!

[Willja67]

Hopefully it's not the last flight

[member_3]

I guess you wouldn't want to hear the story of the 1:6 scale Bf-109E-4 I designed for a friend back in the early seventies. He was an experienced RC pilot and a superb builder. The plane had retracting main gear and was beautifully painted. Came the day of its first flight and the weather was clear but with occasional gusting winds. I think the fact that most of the RC club had turned out to see it influenced his decision to go ahead with the flight. As you may have guessed, the aircraft got airborne quickly and just as he started the turn back downwind (to avoid the trees that bordered the field) a strong gust got under the wing and, in a blink, the plane was in the ground. The fuselage had cleanly snapped in two, as did the removable wing. My friend never threw the plane away as long as I knew him but he never repaired it either.

Morale of the story, Will, is test fly on a dead calm day with a mile of room in every direction!

[shrike]

And no one watching.

Same thing goes for testing homebuilt 1:1 aircraft. Get someone else to do it, and be nowhere within 20 miles. Sobriety is also to be strongly discouraged<G>

[member_3]

Well, things are finally back in motion. the next series of photos will show the skinning of the right inboard wing section.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-45.jpg

See photo above - This is the sheet of new skins that Will sent.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/Military-46.jpg

See photo above - Starting the wing root intake. Portion that has been cut out is rolled into a tube to start.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-47.jpg

See photo above - Part C4 (from the original Corsair model) gets glued to the inner end of the intake to close it off. I removed the glue tabs, doubled the thickness and, after cutting it a bit small, glued it inside the end of the intake.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-48.jpg

See photo above - the results of which you can see here. Needless to say, all colored surfaces are to the inside.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-49.jpg

See photo above - here the outer end of the intake has been roughly shaped into an elongated ovoid and the first of the two flow vanes is ready for installation. the thin strip with two bumps is the interface between the inside of the leading edge and the intake itself. I do not have a good photo of that at this point but will do better with the left wing.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-50.jpg

See photo above - The first of the inner skins has been glued in place forming the top of the after wheel well.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-51.jpg

See photo above - now the upper section of the forward wheel well has been glued in place.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-52.jpg

See photo above - And now wrapped around and glued down. I was not comfortable with the placement of the lower portion because of the lack of positive location references. I followed a different approach on the left wing as will be seen in the next installment.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-53.jpg

See photo above - I joined the upper and lower outer skins at the seam indicated using a glue strip of regular paper. that was the only seam I joined prior to starting the gluing of the outer skin to the inner. My thinking was that I wanted maximum flexibility in getting the puzzle pieces to align. As you can see, the intake has not yet been glued inside the leading edge.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-54.jpg

See photo above - The outer skin has been glued in place to the lower surface of the wing, first along the wing root, then at each panel seam. In my eagerness to get the skin on I had not installed the intake. I had to do that after the skin was at this stage and that id NOT the way to do it! I'll do better on the left wing.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-55.jpg

See photo above - Here is the intake with the upper skin held in place. It's a bit rough because of my poor installation sequence.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-56.jpg

See photo above - All buttoned up on the bottom. The white teardrop is the location for the bomb rack and the white area at the inner leading edge will be covered with a small transition piece once the cowling is on.

http://www.papermodelers.com/gallery/data/677/medium/Military-57.jpg

See photo above - The top all buttoned up. The failings of my assembly method show pretty badly here. By gluing each panel piece down as I went it caused "dishing" of some of the panels. This is not the way to go! When I did the left wing I used the same method as on the original #57 build on Z***** and joined everything to make one pre-formed skin before gluing in place. That works much better and will be seen in the next installment. The revised wing skins all fit perfectly and as soon as I dope out the arrangement of the trailing edge pieces where the flaps will join I'll get some photos of that area.

For the designer - Will, I am inclined to install the main landing gear soon if there are no revisions to the previous installation (as on #57 and #74.) I hope to have the rear fuselage installed with tail gear and hook in time for the convention but no promises...

[Willja67]

Looks good Ron, i guess I better get back to work on this (Modelers ADD always kicks in).

The main landing gear stayed the same(except that I am adding the hydraulic cylinders for the gear door actuators but that doesn't affect the gear installation) but I haven't quite decided how to go about doing the tailhook yet so the tail gear might have to wait. I'll look at it tomorrow and see what i think.

I'm glad you pointed out the lack of reference for placing the top skins. I forgot on the older version that the big joiner part went printed side out so you could see where to glue everything. Do you think things need to be redesigned?

Which design do you like better the new skins of the old? Which ones look better? Is ease of construction a big enough issue you would choose the old ones?

[member_3]

I liked the new ones better - especially when I did it the correct way and put all the puzzle pieces together first instead of doing it on the plane. I'll have some pictures of the left wing with the preferred method once I get some other (non-paper) issues behind me. The alignment reference problem is a non-issue when done the right way. I'll hold off on the tail assembly for a bit and will work on getting the exhausts fitted and the cowling in place. I am also experimenting with carving a form to pull a canopy - more on that much, much later. The main gear looks "challenging" so I have plenty to do for the time being - plus getting stuff priced and packed for the convention...

[solo67]

hey ron..this is coming together very nicely .
im wondering about your color edjing method....do you use colored pens
or water/acrilic paint for that job? can you elaborate on how you go about
this? maybe you do both?
thanks

[member_3]

I have been using Prismacolor markers for most of the edging with a bit of acrylic paint (Tamiya brand mostly) for a bit of touch-up. I also use watercolor pencils when I can't get a color match with the markers.

[Don Boose]

It looks like a Corsair!

You had better bring this one to the IPMC, Ron!

Don

[member_3]

Oh yes - the bits and pieces will be there in whatever state of non-completion the day finds them...

[Willja67]

Okay I am kinda stumped on the wing fold mechanism. I have most of the major stuff designed as you can see in the screen grab but I'm wondering how buildable it will be. The arm with flap actuating rods (not the hydraulic cylinder) is .05" in diameter the way it is currently designed and I'm wondering how small is too small to design cylinders? Since i generally assume cardstock to be about .01" thick when designing I think it should be doable, difficult but doable. What think all of you who might try and tackle this when it's ready?

Also I generally try to design using only one thickness of wire but I'm thinking with this model I'm going to have to specifiy multiple thicknesses or really scale back the level of detail. Any thoughts on that?

I have been referring to the GPM Corsair for some ideas but I was surprised to find a glaring error in the wing fold area. The Corsair only has one hydraulic actuator for the outer 2 flaps and it is mounted on the center section not the outer panel yet the GPM Corsair has a hydraulic actuator for the middle and outboard flaps. So that kinda soured me toward the model.

Well here is a screengrab of what i have designed and of the real thing:

[member_3]

I'll give anything you send me an honest effort but as I previously indicated the folded version would not be my personal choice. I am currently at sea for a few more days but will be ready to reactivate the assembly line on Monday. For the folding mechanism you hae envisioned it might be a smart move to enlist the aid of Bomarc (aka creator of working miniature aircraft.)

[Willja67]

Well I hope a number of people weigh in on this one so I can tailor the model to meet the needs of a larger group of modelers. I know it's going to be in the upper levels of skills needed but i don't want to scare anybody off who would tackle a Halinsky, because most of the model is less detailed than a Halinsky. Maybe I should run a poll about it?

[rickstef]

add the wing hinges as an option sheet

[Willja67]

The plans right now are to make a totally separate version of the model so the folding mechanism doesn't have to bothered with but I have never designed or built anything so tiny and fiddly before so this is uncharted territory for me.

[Willja67]

Ron I was just thinking that since #454 is a -2 meaning land based that i ought to just finish it up and offer the it as an individual kit instead of throwing it together with all the other military repaints and the -1 version that I have been planning? Then those who want a military version can have it and I can work on the fiddly wing fold mechanism at my leisure.

Of course that question is not directed only at Ron but anyone who was interested in this project.

As much as I'm working on the XP-72 right now I figure I'm going to have a burnout soon and this would be a good fallback project.

btw I am doing a small upgrade to the cockpit and finally replacing the seat with the appropriate bucket seat instead of one with cushions.

[member_3]

I think that might be a good way to go, Will. They are certainly two different beasties (what with wing fold, hook, armament and prop) and should probably be offered as two distinct models. I am ready , willing and (hopefully) able to build the version(s) you choose.

[Willja67]

Me being me I just had to start doing it when i had the idea. I bringing the whole kit up to the same standard/format as the XP-67 ie with the border on the pages and trying to make the part layout look a little more professional. It will have the effect of increasing the number of pages in the kit. A few other minor upgrades to the kit are in the works as well. Right now I'm thinking of the gear doors. But again me being me more will be added by the time I'm done.

[member_3]

This thread will be coming to a close here. Will has been doing a major redesign of the fuselage framework and the cockpit as well as doing two different models (the -1 and -2) with different features. The fuselage design has changed enough that this thread is not really pertinent so I am starting a new thread that will start at the beginning with the new frame. The new thread is here - Test Build of F2G-1 "Super" Corsair Military Version (Take 2) (http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/aviation/6654-test-build-f2g-1-super-corsair-military-version-take-2-a.html)