Modelarz Kartonowy DH-82A Tiger Moth

[Ron0909]

Hi Guys,

Just a little break before I launch into a full build thread of Marek's Sopwith Snipe. I needed a little distraction with a model that is a little simpler. This was an inexpensive but surprisingly fun kit that I've had for about 2 months now. Again I am working from scans as I don't have the guts to cut the originals. Some days I just cut things the wrong way and will pooch a whole kit! The framework is pretty extensive and fits together like a glove. Very little sanding was needed. The cockpits (its a 2 seater) are rather scant but there will be enough in the end to look really good. I like the bright yellow as it really stands out and the contrast with that of the Albatros is really nice.

Well...here it is so far.. the fuselage framing is pretty much done with the skin already cut and shaped. I'll attach them together soon. I have 2 days of classes left then a month off. SO come Saturday.. Modeling time!!
Nite all
Ron

[Clashster]

Nice looking start!

[B-Manic]

Nice - I like it so much I ordered the model. My father in-law used to fly one (as a civilian crop duster). It should be a nice gift for him.

[Ron0909]

Hi guys :)

Just a quick update on the 'Moth'. The cockpit interior is complete but I neglected to snap a pic (lotta good that does!). I also started work on the tail end. The outside skin was glued down using a combination of glue stick (to allign everything just so) and PVA. I was seriously and pleasantly surprised to see that the skin fit flawlessly! Not a bit of trimming required. The beginnings of the vertical stabilizer had the same problem...everything was perfect! Detail so far on the bottom of the fuselage is achieved by simple layered parts. I guess it's to give a plain space a little more charm. It seems the more I get into this model the more I really like it. It's simple but intelligent design really gets to the point without stretching the ability of paper.

I'm out of here :)
Nite all
Ron

[B-Manic]

I like the details under the fuselage. I'm glad o hear the fit is good.

[susiesdad]

I went for a flight in one of these a few weeks ago. Where might I be able to order the model from? I'd love to build one. It is even similar in colour to the one I was taken up in. See photo.

[Foxbat]

...Where might I be able to order the model from?...
GPM - modele kartonowe (http://www.gpm.pl/eng/index.php?akcja=produkt&edycja=5234) or http://www.kartonowakolekcja.republika.pl/modelarzkartonowy.html

[bob martin]

Very Nice Ron;) Keep them pics commin:D

[Ron0909]

Thanks guys :) Susiesdad, I bet that flight was a riot! It's really neat seeing how close these models come to the real thing. Bob, more pics on the way. I didn't get much done once again. This was supposed to have been the beginning of my modeling vacation but turned out otherwise. Wives always see the importance of other things :(. I finished up the fuselage today and wanted to post a few pics of how this thing looked. Everything fit once again. I keep saying that right? It's just such a pleasant experience! Modelarz has a Avia, actually 2 of them in different liveries that are by the same designer I believe as this one. I think I'll have to order them up.
Have a good night everyone. Tomorrow's coming fast and I need to start the Neptune

Ron

[Foxbat]

Outstanding and precise work Ron :)

I'm just silently following your thread... :D ;)

Sergey

[B-Manic]

Looks great Ron can't wait for mine to be delivered. How did the cowling go together. In other Tiger Moth kits I've built this is the weak point.

[Ron0909]

That cowling was a breeze. I had even cut off the gluing tabs and there were no problems. The formers and skins work together beautifully. All my cuts were on the middle of the line. When I did a dryfit of the main fuselage skin and the former assembly, I was taken back by the fractional paper allowance that was the overhang where the top and bottom skins met. (Wow that was hard in one breath!). Seriously, it was exactly the thickness of the cardstock. The cowling is one piece that wraps around the entire front end. As long as the piece is scored correctly and pre-formed, it goes on perfectly. The front piece (nose) is also a miracle of engineering. Its one piece that gets gently folder over and joined in the middle. For some reason the process creates a shape that I thought would be terrible to produce in paper but it works :) Anyways...I'm really rambling again! A simple question and I go on and on!
I'm just *that* impressed with the model. The tail is being fiddled with now and formers being cut out for the Neptune.

Back in a bit :)
Ron

[Ron0909]

Hi guys..
Small update tonight but at least it makes this little yellow bird start looking like an airplane. The tail was a group of 5 components that fit together perfectly. For a tiny little plane it's surprisingly strong with the formers all in the right places. The tail has small cardboard formers for a backbone where-ever it's needed. The control horns were originally yellow but I darkened them up for contrast. The pics are just a shot of the tail, the fuselage with the tail mounted and a comparison shot beside the Albatros. This plane is really small!

More to come when I get a chance
Ron

[susiesdad]

Thanks Sergy

I'll order one today

[bob martin]

Hey Man, somebody plucked the wings off that Moth:eek::eek: Quick someone call the wing doctor.:eek:

Really starting to look like a Tiger Moth:D Great work;)

[birder]

Nice looking De. moth Ron!! As such an important trainer is a good model to have. And the colors are nice and bright, looks really good:)

[Ron0909]

Thanks guys :)

The plucked wings had me laughing! Well now we have a hairy moth....
The wings were constructed in a strange way. There is only what I could guess is a template, some small cross pieces and a few ribs per wing. There were no slots to fit the ribs at all. It was cross piece - rib - cross piece you get the picture :) A single hole got drilled in the root rib (the rib that goes up against the fuselage) for a piece of wire that will be used to get the right mounting point on the fuselage. One would think there would be 2 to make the allignment perfect but nope. Anyways, there is a tiny bracket that gets mounted on the topside of the lower wings that attaches to the fuselage that gave me the distance up and down. There isn't much of a gluing surface so I used CA to glue the wings in place. It's pretty strong now but with plain old PVA the bonding area was not large enough. I learned my lessons rigging the Albatros! This time around I use the 'invisible' thread that seamstress' use and made it visible again with a silver Sharpie. The 8lb monofilament seemed a bit heavy for this lightweight. Holes were gently punched whereever needed with a needle in a pinvise. Thankfully there are little markings everywhere for the rigging and the struts so it was easy. The diagrams are a little vague but it's all good :) I just figured out what that *template* was. It's actually an inner skin for the wings. If you look at the first pic you'll see I glued it to 1mm board not paying attention. The piece beside it is the topside inner skin with a joining strip for the tip piece. I never used any of this and butt glued the tip. Maybe I should run the written instructions through a translator. DOH!

That's it for today...oh death to all cats! I'm kidding!!! I love my 2 cats but one of them decided to taste a couple of my Neptune parts and drooled on them. It also decided to chew the nose off the Moth so a new piece had to be made. Thank the Lord I work from scans!
Ron

[cdavenport]

The precision of your build is a sight for the eyes. If you have not already used this, allow me to suggest stainless steel wire for the rigging and flying wires. You can get it in a huge variety of diameters from Small Parts Inc. (on the net) at a very reasonable price.

If you have never used SS wire, the advantage of doing so is the precision profile, absolutely straight sections, and no need for tensioning. You can even color it if need be.

[Ron0909]

Thanks for the link Major :)
I'd never been to that site before. It's a really dangerous place to hang out. The money we can spend there! I had some stainless wire some time ago from my sister in law. It was suture wire though and both too thick and not straight. The stuff at Small Parts would be perfect. As an after thought......could have used that suture wire to close that woman's ........ I can still hear that voice in my mind :(

The Moth had a bit of work done today. Actually got both top wings made, joined together and then I plucked one off. It looked like hell and I couldn't let it go. I had followed the diagrams this time and only got it 50% right. Tomorrow it'll all be back together and I'll post a few pics sans diagrams!

Ron

[Tim Crowe]

Great little model - really captures the spirit of the Tiger Moth.

My dad learned to fly on these many years ago; early 1950's at Cambridge. He's still flying.

Tim

[HamsterX]

Very interesting build... I'm following as time permits.
Ron, you sure have a natural talent for describing these build jobs!

Regarding thin metal wire for rigging: anyone can grab a lot of it for free by stripping the insulator from almost any old/useless/damaged data connection cable. I have a lot of these cables trashed in a crate in my lab. The outer RF shielding layer is made with bundles of very, very thin wire. I used this wire for the radio antennas in my Spitfire, and I suppose it could be used for some types of wing rigging, but never had a chance to try (yet).

Usually this wire is tin-plated and colorless, but with some cables the wire is non-plated naked copper, which gets rusty very quickly... I do not know if this is bad or not... may be good in terms of weathering. :D

Just a idea.

Regards

João

PS: Two lovely cats around here, too... I suppose this is kind of a paper modeller's curse.

[bob martin]

I too have a cat that likes to chase Moths. If she catches it.....Oh baby talk about being de-winged:eek: Sorry to here about kitty mutlations. However the Moth is lookin good:D

[Ron0909]

Regarding thin metal wire for rigging: anyone can grab a lot of it for free by stripping the insulator from almost any old/useless/damaged data connection cableJoao, It's interesting that you mention that cable. I had a piece of it sitting in front of me and I was thinking of that very purpose for the shielding. I had already silvered a lot of that thread but it is definitely in mind for the next wired aircraft. Thank you for the suggestion :)
Tonight, to take my mind off the Neptune for a couple hours, I finished up the lower wing control surfaces and the rest of the upper wing. Again I was successful *not* following instructions. I felt so much better with my little snub against authority! Hey, being older one takes it where one can get it :)
The two wing halves came together on an angle that didn't look right. I finally figured out that in order to square off the center, I had to bend the small joining spars. When the angle was correct, a sandwich of small formers held it all square. I should have taken a picture but I was near hammering the whole assembly with the 'fist of death' as frustration was setting in. Anyways, it came together ok and it will have to do. The 2nd pic is just me having a peek at what the future will bring.

I'm off to bed
Goodnight all :)
Ron

[Ron0909]

Hi guys,

Just a quick update on the Tiger Moth. I haven't had very much time to do any modeling as it's (my time) being domineered by 'she who commands'. I did manage to build the struts and get the top wing mounted. I had all the rigging pre-ran with the silvered invisible thread but it's way too fine for me so it got ripped out in a fit of rage and frustration. Back at it again when I can sit down :) Seriously...I need to sit quietly to do rigging and it just hasn't been too quiet

All the best
Ron

[cMags]

That's a beautifully clean build Ron. Watching your build while building my SV-4C really re-ignited my love for the biplanes of yesteryear. Even picked up some old and new WWI airwar movies (Flyboys, Blue Max, Hell's Angels) to watch while finishing up the build. I think I'm going to have to get myself a copy of the Moth and try my hand as well. Then maybe Marek's Albatros. They're just so elegant and the beautiful builds on this forum really inspire.

Thanks for sharing, and even when you can't find more than a moment's peace for building, don't forget to enjoy the moment anyway! :cool:

[redhorse]

It looks great, and you are right that rigging needs peace and quiet.

[Don Boose]

This really is a superb model. Lots to learn from your building and rigging techniques!

Don

[bob martin]

Really neat and clean Ron;) Once you get some feet on that bird all that remains is.. finishing up:D:D:D and the rigging of course:cool:

[Ron0909]

Hi guys :)

This little bird has been sitting around without her legs for some time now so I put the Bergpanther on hold for a couple days to finish her up. At first I thought the undercarriage would be a pain. It turned out that florist's wire was perfect and everything lined right up. I couldn't use the pieces provided to wrap the wire so I ended up using cigarette rolling papers. The heavy paper just wouldn't wrap to my liking and I'm not all that talented at rolling tubes what so ever :) The pics below are just that... a front end shot of the Moth and the second one is the Moth sitting beside the Albatros CXII. I like comparing the two as I go along for fun.

Have a good night :)
Ron

[B-Manic]

The moth is looking real good Ron. Just about there.

[Don Boose]

Beautiful photos!

You have certainly done a beautiful job with this classic.

Don

[cdavenport]

Ron, that is a gorgeous plane! I see from the last photos that you have not done the rigging yet.

Allow me to suggest you dispense with silvered this, and invisible that; use stainless steel wire.

It's not very expensive and comes in a huge variety of diameters. Check it out at: SmallParts.com: The Hardware Store for Researchers and Developers (http://www.smallparts.com/)
This material comes shipped in a tube and is dead straight when you cut it.

I have been using the stuff for ages on all my biplanes. All you have to do in paper is use a fine pointed punch (a safety pin works just fine) to establish an entry hole.

Span the distance between struts (I use a pair of dividers).

Cut the SS wire slightly over length; use tweezers to gently pop it into place. If it is too long, cut just a bit off with side cutters.

I add a bit of CA to the hole to lock the wire in place. Check out the pictures of my Caudron Luciole http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/aviation/6215-dga-caudron-luciole-1-48-a-4.html

It took me about 1/2 hour to completely rig her, start to finish.

[ashevilleangler]

Charles, I'm intrigued by your SS wire suggestion. What dia do you suggest for 1/48, 1/32 or 1/72 scale?

Curt

[Ron0909]

Thanks kindly everyone for the encouragement and the suggestions :) Charles, that wire looks awesome and I'm going to order some up. I was planning on re-rigging the Albatros especially after I saw your latest build and the rigging you did so well. Tonight was only the addition of the 2 wheels. They were made up of 5 x 1mm discs and spun on the rotary tool. A little black paint and some punched discs from the parts sheet finished 'em up.

With luck this little bird will be finished soon

Nite all

Ron

[Don Boose]

Superb wheels. For a model of this size, what gauge wire do you plan to use?

Major D: Many thanks for providing the source of wire. Does it really ship in 60-inch lengths?

Don

[cdavenport]

Charles, I'm intrigued by your SS wire suggestion. What dia do you suggest for 1/48, 1/32 or 1/72 scale?

Curt

In these small scales, you could could be really "exact" and scale flying wires appropriately. Some interesting facts first:

The term flying wire is actually a misnomer; after 1917 manufacturers, starting with the British, began drawing stainless steel into streamlined "wires" with either clevis or threaded ends. These are called tie rods. Close inspection of the wires on this DH Tiger Moth show the clevis at the ends.

"Flying wires" prevent the wing from folding up and "landing wires" prevent the wing from collapsing when not in flight.

Some biplanes feature a pole that seems to link the wires together at the intersection. This is called a javelin. Its use is to prevent the wires from touching each other, causing wear, fatigue and, eventually, failure.

"Flying wire" comes in a small variety of diameters but, for our purposes, 1/4" diameter, scaled appropriately, is a usable reference. Scaled, the diameters for stainless steel wire are as follows:

1/72- .004"
1/48-. 005"
1/32-. 008"

I rigged the Luciole using .008" wire. For comparison, the average human hair is between .002" and .004" in diameter.

More than you ever wanted to know!

[kenlwest]

Beautiful Job!

Ken

[redhorse]

Beautiful job on the plane.

And thanks for that link, Charles. They've got a lot of really interesting stuff there.

[Don Boose]

I've captured the data, Major D. Many thanks!

Don

[cdavenport]

Superb wheels. For a model of this size, what gauge wire do you plan to use?

Major D: Many thanks for providing the source of wire. Does it really ship in 60-inch lengths?

Don
It sure does, Don. I have this long polytube with the wire inside. You can get it in shorter lengths, but it's most economical in the longer lengths.

Actually, I have ordered quite a few modeling items from Small Parts over the years: reasonable pricing and excellent service.

[cdavenport]

Another thought for the TM. I have seen quite a few over the years including the one in the Shuttleworth collection. All of them sported a nice gloss finish.

In small scales, pure gloss is a bit overpowering. But, a semi-gloss will really make the skins POP!

And, I agree with Don; those are well done tires. I am assuming each is a lamination.

Now, I need to get to work on my Do-335. I am having too much fun right here on your thread!