M4A4 Sherman VC Firefly, Halinski 1:25 - Page 21

**Igor** · #**201** 04-20-2020, 07:23 AM

Тhank you Eric.

Well, thanks to y66, i got a point to how the rounds were stored.
This picture shows that they are stored with tips down...But it is not exactly the same kind of storage box.

So its strange that the design predicts it, but instructions show the other way. Maybe there were both options of storage.

Nevertheless... i will leave this mistake as it is, because i've already trimed the caps and glued the rounds inside and cannot correct it.
But for anybody who plans to build this model in the future - keep in mind.

By the way, David, i looked again in your build thread and didn't find when you switched them. Yours also with tips up. So do every other builds i found.
Interesting

**Texman** · #**202** 04-20-2020, 08:55 AM

This could have also been a particular crews preference.

**Igor** · #**203** 04-20-2020, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texman

This could have also been a particular crews preference.

I agree

**romanmodels** · #**204** 04-20-2020, 03:02 PM

hi Igor like you i made them fit as the instructions it was only when i all most finished the basket that i turned them the other way up

**hirondelle** · #**205** 04-21-2020, 05:25 AM

You guys who have successfully finished this beast (or who will finish!) may like this - so as you will be able to keep it properly maintained.
Sherman Manual It is downloadable in various formats.

On shell placement. See pages 13, 30 (pdf pages 21, 38)
There are mentions historically, of problems created by having shells come apart & leaving explosive powder on the floor etc. This would be a good reason to keep tips pointing up where possible.

I wonder if that photo in the above post is misleading, taken at an odd angle perhaps?
Is the box/rack in the photo placed in the same position, it hasn't got the same number of shells/spaces as the box in this model (Maybe pic of an earlier Sherman variant?)?
I can see the advantage of tip down if it is the forward-most box as it would be easier to grip with the lip at the base, but with the possibility of it coming apart increased also. & what about shell types with impact firing caps in the nose....

Good to see you keeping up the great job Igor.

**Kevin WS** · #**206** 04-21-2020, 11:26 AM

That photo with the rounds pointing down is of one of the "wet" storage racks in an M4A3 Sherman.

Why point down I would not know. It also means that when the ammunition is removed, it has to be turned around.

Normally ammunition is stored point up, or if on its side point out - to assist in preventing the formation of condensation, to protect the detonator but more importantly, so the type of shell can be identified from the tip marking or colouration or shape.

I have an extensive range of reference material on the Sherman and have been going through it to see (out of interest) if I can find similar instances.

There are a few drawing that shows ammo point down, but these are rudimentary illustrations, neither accurate in terms of features or dimensions or in some cases appearances and are illustrations for general statements (such as tanks store ammunition often in their turrets").

However, the official and manual diagrams I have all show rounds point up.

But, I will keep on looking!

**y66** · #**207** 04-22-2020, 12:26 AM

hello
1. the two photos above are for the M4A4 version which has a 75 mm gun.
The halinski model is the British Vc firefly which has a 17 pdr. (3 in. ,76.2 mm) gun. The 17 pdr. has a longer sheels , about 34.47 in. (875 mm).
The 75 mm shell is about 26.3 in. (660 mm). (this for a.p.c. shell)

2. usually the bottom part of the cartridge (i think its called "the rim") is wider then the cartridge . so it's more easy to take out the shell if its put upside down in the box.

**Kevin WS** · #**208** 04-22-2020, 02:38 AM

y66 - Thanks for the response, but I don't agree with either of your points. Refer back to my post.

However, we should not now start debating this here, as this is Igor's build thread - if you want to explore this further I suggest creating a separate thread away from this one in the Cardboard Lounge.

**Kevin WS** · #**209** 04-22-2020, 02:54 AM

Igor - must tell you that I am really enjoying this build.

You have now convinced me to at some stage (when I am able and travel restarts) to buy and make this kit! I would like to try modelling it as a "cut-away" when I do it.

Don't rush the rest - need this from time to time to enjoy during lock-down!

**Igor** · #**210** 04-22-2020, 11:34 AM

I really am enjoying this discussion, though it's a little offtopic

I must say, that in general my style is to build "as is", so i don't try to correct every design mistake. But this model, with such a detalizations, always pushes me to seek information about the real thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin WS

Igor - must tell you that I am really enjoying this build.

You have now convinced me to at some stage (when I am able and travel restarts) to buy and make this kit! I would like to try modelling it as a "cut-away" when I do it.

Don't rush the rest - need this from time to time to enjoy during lock-down!

Thank you Kevin and don't worry - with my progress speed it will probably take another couple of years