RIP P 51D "Galveston Gal"...

**nebeltex** · #1 10-23-2013, 03:10 PM

Today, the P 51D "Galveston Gal" crashed shortly after take-off. Unfortunately, the aircraft was destroyed and the two people aboard (as yet unidentified) did not survive.

2 bodies recovered after historic WWII plane crashes near Chocolate Bay | khou.com Houston

**milenio3** · #2 10-23-2013, 03:22 PM

Oh what a pity!!!

Galveston Gal had some troubles on the San Antonio air show in 2011. It stayed there for many months under fixing some troubles with the radiator (or so they told me at the Galveston Lone Star museum when I visited in 2012).

Then she was flying on the Wings Over Houston a year ago (October 2012).

A very sad loss of lives and beautiful machine.

Photo not mine, but is from the Houston 2012 air show. Galveston Gal with also Galvestonian P-47 Tarheel Hal, and two other friends.

**KCStephens** · #3 10-23-2013, 05:50 PM

Very sad indeed

**John deNeergaard** · #4 10-23-2013, 07:35 PM

I've been a proponent of antique aviation for many years. Nothing thrills me more than to see a Spitfire, a B-17, a P-40, Constellation, etc. fly overhead. Yet these aircraft continue to age and to fall in spite of the efforts of many.

As each new generation takes to the air in these machines, they do so with fewer and fewer hours in each type, so that the experience (gained from first generation pilots) is practically nil. Sorry, but 200 hours in a P-51 does not make an expert. How old does an aircraft need to be; conversely how inexperienced does a pilot have to be in aircraft type, before serious consideration should be made to ground the plane and/or the pilot? The Chocolate Bay crash has not yet been investigated to any extent, but it appears that the weather was fine which means either there was a mechanical failure or pilot error. We'll see.

Meanwhile, old planes continue to fly and I'm just a bit more torn as to whether they should be. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting too old.

Meanwhile, my prayers go out to the two who perished and their families.

**eagleclaw4935** · #5 10-24-2013, 08:40 AM

I agree that more flight time and experience is needed,but to proceed to the future,we must always honor the past.Also the dash 2 tech orders need to be followed to the letter.For those not familiar with the dash 2's,those are the maint.manuals.

**airdave** · #6 10-24-2013, 11:32 AM

Agreed that more flight time = more experience = safer flying.

But in many cases (not suggesting this one) accidents happen because
Pilots (experienced or not) push their planes to unnecessary extremes
that put the Pilots and Planes in more difficult situations.
I'm not saying situations that the plane or pilot can't handle...just situations
that are riskier and provide more opportunities for mistakes.

Its too easy to give the audience an extra thrill at a show,
or try to impress a paying passenger with some extreme maneouvers.
And thats where the lack of experience really shows.

Yes, a lot of accidents occur because of mechanical failure,
but I don't think its because of the age of the aircraft.
Common Part failures or human errors probably contribute
to the largest percentage of accidents.
From what I have seen and read, the standards are very high
regarding airplane repair and restoration.

(On Ice Pilots last night, the landing gear failed on the C-46 because someone had
left a Hammer in the engine and it got lodged into the gear upon landing. Luckily the
plane was on the ground and all they lost was an engine and wing.)

So, I say, keep these planes flying. keep 'em safe, but keep 'em flying.
Maybe stress (to Pilots) the importance and intelligence of flying a little
more sedately. Leave the aerobatics to the dedicated aerobatic groups.

On a side note, another Wing Walker died...this one falling from the plane.
I've always thought this is a totally unnecessary "thrill" event.
I've never personally enjoyed "wing walkers".

**John deNeergaard** · #7 10-24-2013, 12:29 PM

My main point is that most all of the experienced pilots groomed to fly the old WWII aircraft are now gone. Those millions of hours of hard flying experience have also gone forever and most of the many lessons learned.

Some of the collective experience has been passed along to second and third generation pilots, but much has been lost. Again, the 3rd generation pilots (aged 40's and 50's) for the most part have less than 500 hours in antique aircraft types. They can't possibly know how to manage all flying aspects of a P-51 or a P-40 at ALL critical moments of flight. AND some are flying paying passengers to boot?!

I am scared that one of the larger bombers will go down with a load of paying passengers some day. Then the Feds will step in for good.

I don't know what the solution should be. I love the sound of those old round engines.

**thokamous** · #8 10-24-2013, 03:19 PM

its very sad my heart goes to the families :(

**Isaac** · #9 10-24-2013, 03:49 PM

Better to build brand new replicas of the real thing!

New materials, new safety specs, more reliable engines and same old paint job. No one will know what's under the skin during an air show.

There are FW-190 s and Me-262 brand new ones flying now.

Isaac

**RyanShort1** · #10 10-24-2013, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John deNeergaard

I've been a proponent of antique aviation for many years. Nothing thrills me more than to see a Spitfire, a B-17, a P-40, Constellation, etc. fly overhead. Yet these aircraft continue to age and to fall in spite of the efforts of many.

As each new generation takes to the air in these machines, they do so with fewer and fewer hours in each type, so that the experience (gained from first generation pilots) is practically nil. Sorry, but 200 hours in a P-51 does not make an expert. How old does an aircraft need to be; conversely how inexperienced does a pilot have to be in aircraft type, before serious consideration should be made to ground the plane and/or the pilot? The Chocolate Bay crash has not yet been investigated to any extent, but it appears that the weather was fine which means either there was a mechanical failure or pilot error. We'll see.

Meanwhile, old planes continue to fly and I'm just a bit more torn as to whether they should be. I dunno, maybe I'm just getting too old.

Meanwhile, my prayers go out to the two who perished and their families.

True. but a ton of hours before that in a T-6 is very likely and that plane has a reputation of being harder to fly. Insurance really does drive a lot of who gets to fly these aircraft.
I'd also be willing to guess that GG was a LOT better maintained that many newer aircraft out there...

Ryan