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Old 09-07-2023, 09:37 AM
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Draco Draco is offline
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Supermarine Sea Otter

Well, it seems that I can't be without designing seaplanes. Or in this case, my first amphibian.

The Supermarine Sea Otter was an amphibious aircraft designed and built by the British aircraft manufacturer Supermarine. It was the final biplane flying boat to be designed by Supermarine; it was also the last biplane to enter service with both the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force (RAF).

The Sea Otter was developed as a refinement of the Supermarine Walrus, having been redesigned for longer range operations, to perform dive bombing and to operate from a wider range of vessels than its predecessor. Prior to receiving the name Sea Otter, it was known as Stingray. Due to Supermarine's existing commitments to the Walrus and the Supermarine Spitfire programmes, the aircraft's development was protracted. The maiden flight of the Sea Otter took place on 23 September 1938, while a production order was only issued in 1942 on account of the urgent wartime demands of the Second World War.

It's interesting that I haven't found a paper model of this plane, and if it exist, it will use another kind of construction than mine, that allows the inner keel of this particular plane.

It served, too, in a LOT of different squadrons and six countries, so there are going to be a lot of different schemes.

Mine will have a turning propeller, and two position wheels (up and down). I'm not sure about allowing the wings to be folded.

Currently I'm designing a "What if" plane that will follow the path of my Slam Pluto of an alternative history. It will be a very liked surprise!

And I'm thinking about designing one of the space fighters that are used in the "Scattered Stars" books by Glynn Steward. What do you think about making this spaceship? Whould you be interested?
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Supermarine Sea Otter-supermarine_sea_otter.jpg   Supermarine Sea Otter-xcover19.jpg   Supermarine Sea Otter-sea-otter-descarga.jpg   Supermarine Sea Otter-conviction-web-1.jpg  

Last edited by Draco; 09-07-2023 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 09-07-2023, 11:09 AM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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13 Carrier Air Group (HMS Triumph) Sea Otter II, June-October 1950

This is good news, Draco!

I hope you will consider producing one of your Sea Otters as JM960 (“Neptune’s Daughter”), which was the search and rescue bird of HMS Triumph while the ship was conducting combat operations in the early months of the Korean War (July to October 1950).

At the start of the Korean war on 25 June 1950, HMS Triumph embarked No. 13 Carrier Air Group (Tail Code "P"), consisting of 12 Seafire F.R.47s of No. 800 Naval Air Squadron (NAS); 12 Firefly FR/NF Mk Is of No. 627 NAS, and Supermarine Sea Otter II JM960 ("Neptune's Daughter").

The problem is finding documentation on what Neptune’s Daughter looked like. Based on the serial (JM960), is was one of a batch of Sea Otters build by Saudners-Roe (“250 Sea Otter ABR.I ordered under Contract No Ctts/Acft/1806 from Saunders-Roe Ltd, Cowes. Serial Numbers JM740-JN257.” Source: “Supermarine Sea Otter,” Fleet Air Arm Archive, previously available at Fleetairarmarchive.net -, accessed 8 July 2012, but not currently available) The color image at that site shows what Neptune’s Daughter probably looked like.

This image shows a Supermarine Sea Otter (P 951) of HMS Triumph around 1948, but I am not sure if it is Neptune’s Daughter (the serial is not visible): Sea Otter 2 | A Sea Otter with TAG aboard ready to hook onto… | Flickr

The Imperial War Museum has an image of what has to be Neptune’s Daughter, but it is not visible to me from my computer. I am in the process of trying to purchase a copy of the image. The caption is, “THE ROYAL NAVY RESCUES A UNITED STATES FLIER OFF KOREA IN 1950: A successful rescue operation was carried out recently by a Supermarine Sea Otter from the aircraft carrier HMS TRIUMPH off the Korean coast. After a strike at Communist targets on land, the pilot of a US Air Force plane was forced to ditch his damaged machine in the sea 80 miles away from the British Fleet. The Supermarine Sea Otter took off from the TRIUMPH and was guided to the wreckage by other US aircraft circling over the spot. The British pilot, Lieutenant P Cane, of St Albans, and his observer, Aircrewman First Class J C O'Nion, of Christchurch, landed the Supermarine Sea Otter alongside the American afloat in a dinghy and took him aboard. This photograph shows the rescued US pilot smiling happily as the Supermarine Sea Otter lands on the TRIUMPH's flight deck after the successful rescue operation.” THE ROYAL NAVY RESCUES A UNITED STATES FLIER OFF KOREA IN 1950 | Imperial War Museums

Other images of a different Triumph Sea Otter (901) are available but the serial does not appear to be JM960. Sea Otter 1 | A Sea Otter Being hooked on to be lifted inboa… | Flickr
Sea Otter | Sea Otter taxiing off Cyprus | Rick Willmore | Flickr

Don

Sources:

Fleet Air Arm Officers’ Association History, available at http://www.fleetairarmoa.org/pages/f.../history.shtml, accessed 5 July 2012.

“Supermarine Sea Otter,” Fleet Air Arm Archive, previously available at Fleetairarmarchive.net -, accessed 8 July 2012, no longer available on 7 September 2023.

Davis Hobbs, “British Commonwealth Carrier Operations in the Korean War,” Air & Space Power Journal, Volume XVIII, No. 4, Winter 2004.

“HMS Triumph,” Naval Warfare November 2010, available from http://navalwarfare.blogspot.com/201...s-triumph.html, accessed 5 July 2012.

“The Royal Navy Rescues a United States Flier off Korea in 1950,” Imperial War Museum web site, available at THE ROYAL NAVY RESCUES A UNITED STATES FLIER OFF KOREA IN 1950 | Imperial War Museums, accessed 5 July 2012.

Tony O'Toole articles on the Triumph air group and on building plastic models of FR.1 (Mk.I) and AS.5 (Mk.V) Korean War era Fireflys in the September 2007 issue of Model Aircraft Monthly.
Tony O’Toole, “The Forgotten Cruise,” previously available at http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....ten_Cruise.htm accessed 5 July 2012, no longer available on 7 September 2023.

Owen G. Thetford, “Supermarine Sea Otter,” Royal Naval Aircraft Since 1912, Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1991, pp. 328-329, available at
http://books.google.com/books?id=28e...riumph&f=false

“HMS Triumph,” available at HMS Triumph accessed 5 July 2012.

Images of Triumph Sea Otter (901): Sea Otter 1 | A Sea Otter Being hooked on to be lifted inboa… | Flickr
Sea Otter | Sea Otter taxiing off Cyprus | Rick Willmore | Flickr
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Old 09-07-2023, 12:28 PM
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Hi, Don!

I saw two of the pictures, I'll check the others when I have time. I love that they have the "steps" draw over the wings like my Stranraer has. Ok, I can include Neptune’s Daughter. I usually design a index guide on all the versions of my models. If for any chance I don't put her there, just remind me and I'll do it. This page shows the HMS Triump with some Sea Otter, I believe I can paint Neptune’s Daughter with that information unless it had something special British Aircraft Carrier HMS Triumph - Destination's Journey
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Old 09-07-2023, 03:56 PM
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Great news Draco. The Seafire 47 from Triumph during Korea is available in the downloads section here - and is sitting on my shelf too. And if you're doing 'what if' planes there was a four-engined Supermarine bomber, the Type 318, that never made it to production after losing out to the Short Stirling.
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Old 09-08-2023, 12:51 PM
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Good, Siwi!
I haven't heard about the 318, it seems it was far from the final drawings stage. But while reading about the Sea Otter, I found the Seagull, and this one went to my to-do folder.

So this weekend ecardmodels should publish my 1:33 version of the Do-24N KD+GA. Then next weekend they should release my three versions in two scales of my secret "what if" proyect.

And meanwhile I should be publishing the assembly of the inner structure of the Sea Otter. The picture I found shows how the wings fold. It means that the flaps and ailerons shoud be articulated, too. The finished model should have many similitudes with the Swordfish that I made, painting over a resized model by Modelcard. (Sorry that the model has not a wonderfull finish, someday I should make a complete overhault of all my paper models)

BTW, it seems that nobody is interested in the space fighter. A shame, I love the books :-(
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Supermarine Sea Otter-seagull-1a.jpg   Supermarine Sea Otter-sea-otter-1515472-large.jpg   Supermarine Sea Otter-swordfish-82-.jpg  

Last edited by Draco; 09-08-2023 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 09-08-2023, 01:37 PM
sepp10 sepp10 is offline
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There was (is?) a Sea Otter paper model. ECardmodels in its previous incarnation carried a 1/48 scale Sea Otter from Lad'n'Dad. I believe that it portrays a Korean War era aircraft from HMS Theseus, JN196, Tail Code T. I only have a single image from eCardmodels. This shows a Sea Otter with a dark(ish) blue top and a light gray
underside. At least one flying scale model of the Sea Otter was finished in the same colours.However this should probably be Extra Dark Sea Gray over Sky. [No disruptive camouflage]
There might be members who have a copy of this model and who can provide more detail.
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Old 09-09-2023, 04:56 AM
Siwi Siwi is offline
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Well, it will be interesting to see how you make the movable surfaces. This is something I'm interested in as I attempted it on one model, the Fulmer, and it basically worked but the result was that the wing had to be loose and so trail on the ground when in the folded position. The control surfaces are easier as the hinge is long and can be done with some wire which the paper is rolled around. But the wing fold requires a much smaller hinge, perhaps a dovetail joint made from a stack of reinforced layers?
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Old 09-09-2023, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siwi View Post
Well, it will be interesting to see how you make the movable surfaces. This is something I'm interested in as I attempted it on one model, the Fulmer, and it basically worked but the result was that the wing had to be loose and so trail on the ground when in the folded position. The control surfaces are easier as the hinge is long and can be done with some wire which the paper is rolled around. But the wing fold requires a much smaller hinge, perhaps a dovetail joint made from a stack of reinforced layers?
Well, I'm going to use the big metal rings that can be seen inside the rear side of the folded wings. If I include them (and the modeler uses Testor or Uhu plastic glues) the wings shouldn't have any problem. I won't try to make the wings foldable, just that they can be depicted opened or folded.
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Old 09-10-2023, 12:41 PM
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Ok, starting to draw the parts of the Sea Otter. First, find some 3d drawing.
Second, find which one is real. On this case one shows the rudders end rounded and the rear keel curved. The other one shows keel and rudder straight.
A bit of research and the one that says "DRG Ref 099" is the correct one.
This step is very important, when I was finishing my Saro London Siwi detected the same problem with ALL the 3d drawings and was only when you saw the pictures that the mistake was evident.
So, now I have the right drawing, the right size and can start to draw the inner structure.
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Old 09-16-2023, 04:40 PM
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Working on the Sea Otter. I'm in the stage to collect information, select versions and find pictures.

Don, you can see that the first version is going to be Neptune´s Daughter.
There are eight versions in total, three of them civilians.

An interesting fact is that the upper and lower wings are painted in different colors. That's part of the camouflage and takes into account the shadows of upper wing and fuselage over the lower wing and fuselage sides.
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