Question about a B-17F markings

**SCEtoAUX** · #1 05-30-2014, 05:00 PM

I have a family connection with a particular B-17F from the 303rd BG, 358th BS, Molesworth, England named "Hell Cat" , 1Lt Oran T. O'Connor commanding, lost Jan 23, 1943. The nose art was the name.

Question about a B-17F markings-hell-cat-nose-art.jpg

The only numbers I can find are:
#41-24580
Group: 303BG
Squadron: 358BS
Sq Code: YF
I have not been able to find listing with the A/C Code.

Are these the numbers and letters that would have been found painted on the tail and fuselage and if so how would they have looked?

The aircraft was shot down by enemy fighters on Mission #11, 23 Jan 1943 to Lorient, France. It went down in the region between Brest and the coast ditching in the Bay of Biscay. The family connection is the ball turret gunner Sgt. Clinton Fincher, who eventually wound up in Stalag 17B.
Any help would be appreciated.

**John Dell** · #2 05-30-2014, 06:50 PM

Let me do some digging, I should be able to track down some more info. I'll also post some photos showing what the group and squadron markings should look like. Neat nose art, I'd like to find some better photos of it.

**looker** · #3 05-30-2014, 07:58 PM

Go for it John.
That was an early B 17F serial. There exists a publication, which I don't have -
Pride of Seattle: The Story of the First 300 B-17Fs
Aircraft Specials series Squadron/Signal Publications 1998 ISBN: 0897473892
- which covers serial numbers 41-24340 through 41-24639 and may mention "Hell Cat" or its contemparies at Molesworth.

**John Dell** · #4 05-30-2014, 08:47 PM

This is what I found so far. This was a B-17F-27-BO and was one of the original aircraft assigned to the 303rd on 11/10/42 and arrived in England on 16/10/42. The reference I have lists the squadron code as VK and the individual aircraft letter as C.

A description of her last mission appears in the Osprey book "303rd Bombardment Group" by Brian D. O'Neil.

"... on the 23rd (January, 1943), was a 21-aircraft effort (with one abort) against the Lorient U-boat pens. It was a debacle, partly because another unit dropped its bombs over the 303rd, scattering the formation. Five aircraft were lost. 41-24580 Hell Cat of the 358th (Squadron), attacked by fighters, was last seen between Brest and the coast with its number four engine feathered and number one smoking. It went down with 1Lt Oran O'Connor's crew into the Bay of Biscay and eight crewman were captured but two escaped."

This plane is listed in the "Pride of Seattle" book. It states the plane was delivered to the Army Air Force on 14/8/42.

I'll keep looking to see what else I can find. I hope this helps.

**nighthawk78** · #5 05-31-2014, 02:53 AM

Just did some digging myself and found this webpage, hope it helps,
Oran T. O'Connor Crew
NH78

**John Dell** · #6 05-31-2014, 06:01 AM

Here is a link to the illustrator who did the art in the 303rd book I have. It will give you an idea of how the markings would have appeared.

I'll keep on looking for more info.

Aircraft illustration

**SCEtoAUX** · #7 05-31-2014, 06:05 AM

Yep, I have found some of that information about the crew and final mission. Even have some POW records for Sgt. Clinton Fincher. Interesting reading.

I am trying to figure out what the airplane markings would look like. You see markings on the tail with a number and some letters and letters on the fuselage for individual aircraft which are used to identify it. Some of the fuselage letters are grouped together, some are separated by the star.

Going to try to mark up a model with the correct markings for "Hell Cat". Probably use a G variant unless there is an F variant model available.

Edit: Thanks, John, those markings are helpful.

**cmdr199212** · #8 05-31-2014, 06:16 AM

I'm going a bit on a limb here.. but isn't the F essentially the G without a chin turret, at least on the outside?

**SCEtoAUX** · #9 05-31-2014, 07:55 AM

From what I can gather there are a few other differences between the F and G variants. Don't know how accurate it is but here is a drawing that shows some external differences:

I kind of wonder about the side hatch (F in the drawing).

**Swampfox** · #10 05-31-2014, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdr199212

I'm going a bit on a limb here.. but isn't the F essentially the G without a chin turret, at least on the outside?

There are dozens of small external differences between an F and G. Interior wise there are hundreds of differences. If you've not taken the time to really get to know the B-17 family, for the most part, you wouldn't recognize the major and minor variations between the two.

Swampfox