P-51D Mustangs

[umtutsut]

Dave,

Talked to my friend Brian at NASM about NACA 127. He's gonna check to see what he has, but says the restoration was pretty much spot on. One thing: no "TEST" markings. He says the Dryden types just kinda hooted when Ames said everyone should put "TEST" on their NACA aircraft.

More when i get it....

Les (The Voice of Authority)

[umtutsut]

Speaking of "test" aircraft (well, kinda), any chance you'd be interested in doing this F-47D repaint?

F-47D Thunderbolt by Jon Bryon (Tamiya 1/48)

Apparently the Air Force used it to chase off civilian aircraft prior to a flight test.

Les (The Voice of Authority)

[airdave]

As far as the word "TEST", I didn't specifically say that word had to be on this aircraft..
There are other "testing" related markings that were put on these planes.
Some appear to be letter codes?

In almost every photo of a NACA Mustang,
there is evidence of some lettering on the fuselages.
You can't tell me everyone of these planes is from the "other" group? [Dryden?]

The photo that is purported to be 44-84900 (01-Z)
[shown in my earlier post]...
clearly had lettering on the sides at some point.
And we know it wasn't delivered that way.
Not to be rude, but if this is the correct plane, then your friend
is wrong about never putting on some sort of "test" markings on NACA 127.

Anyway, my question still stands...do I leave off the USAF insignia?

Thats what I want to do.
Its my personal opinion that the aircraft was delivered as per the photo,
with a bare metal finish and type 3 star and bar insignia.
The USAF markings were then removed and NACA markings placed.
After testing, the aircraft was stripped of all paint and markings
and newer USAF (red stripe) insignia attached for shipment to Penn ANG.
But while in NACA service it did not display USAF markings.

But...
If everyone interested in this model, wants to see USAF insignia
on the plane, then I must decide which version of the insignia to use.
(Because I don't think the red strip insignia went on until after NACA service
....which contradicts the current recreation)


This reminds me of earlier model designs that required discussions over
proper markings and stuff...I like this part of the process!

[umtutsut]

Dave,

Maybe this'll help. I did some more digging.

1. I had just assumed (yeah, I know) that 127 was at Dryden. While it may have been there at some point, the aircraft was actually assigned to Langley from September 1945 to June 1952.

2. In his original message, my friend Brian said his recollection was that 127 had national insignia but no "USAF" lettering. Again, that would be consistent with ex-military aircraft assigned to NACA for a long period. So, I'd go with the red stripe.

3. Tall vs. short tail. I found at post on the Warbird Information Exchange that says the NACA P-51s got the mod because they needed more stability doing high-speed dives with models.

I certain understand you want to get the model right the first time. Again, I'll gladly send or post any add'l pix Brian finds in the NASM archives.

Les (The Voice of Authority)

[umtutsut]

Originally Posted by airdave

The photo that is purported to be 44-84900 (01-Z)
[shown in my earlier post]...
clearly had lettering on the sides at some point.

I figured this one out by doing a little photoprocessing with GIMP...but it won't really help determine the right NACA markings!

The lettering appears to be the remnant of a standard F-51D buzz number: FF-900. Now when was THAT painted on the aircraft???

Les (The Voice of Authority)

[airdave]

FF900 makes sense...Fourty Four (84) 900

It would have been applied during its work with NACA.
F designation came in in 1948.

(Again, assuming that this IS in fact 44-84900) it is not
present on the aircraft at the time of delivery (according
to the first NACA photo we have of the plane taken in 1945).
An we know it wasn't on the aircraft after 1952 (when the
plane went to the ANG.

LOL this is crazy.

I am seriously considering changing this model to NACA 148.
I have a clear photo of that aircraft and theres no argument as to how it
was dressed. And I like the "RESCUE" decal and no USAF insignia look.

Some interesting info in this Discussion thread here:
naca mustang - Bing Images

A couple of photos to note in that thread...
a close up of a Technician attaching test models to the wing of a P-51D that sports
newer Stars and Bar and remnants of "TEST" on the fuselage sides.

And the following photo shows NACA 102 with Type 3 insignia. and bare metal finish.
(I read that NACA painted the aircraft silver, but none seem painted in any of the photos).

Its painfully obvious that markings and insignia varied to some degree.
And unless we have more photos of NACA 127, theres no way to be
one hundred percent sure.

[umtutsut]

Doing 148 would be cool...but see attached pic. Following early 50s Dryden custom, "NACA 148" lettering would be on lower port/upper starboard wing. Varied? indeed!

Even when I was with NASA Aeronautics 1989-94, the aircraft paint jobs varied, despite an existing standard. I wrote a Fine Scale Modeler article about it ("NASA's Air Force," April 1996).

Les (The Voice of Authority)

[airdave]

ooh very nice!

NACA 148 it is then!
I like the addition of the underwing lettering.

However it immediately raised the question of whether there
was underwing insignia on the right wing? (Since the lettering
has been placed under the left wing)

Usually making a negative from your photo is a good way to
reveal hidden details and it gives us a real nice look at the underwing
lettering. It also reveals that there doesn't appear to be any insignia
under the right wing.

However I don't necessarily agree that there is lettering on the upper
right wing. The large lettering is obviously for increased visibility from
the ground, and in that case only the underwing lettering is necessary.
Why bother with the upperwing letters?
(Inverted flight not being a requirement of testing procedures)

Just realized something...the upper wings have painted white panels.
No room for upper wing lettering, unless they made it small enough to fit
near the wing tip...unlikely.

[airdave]

NACA 148 was a two seat Trainer and chase plane used by NASA up to at
least 1958. It did not have the white panels...since it did not have the wing
"Test" equipment. It did have NACA 148 on the left lower, AND right upper
wing surfaces. It did not have USAF insignia.

I'm switching back to NACA 127...however I am still undecided about the USAF
markings...if I leave stars and bars on the plane, it will be Type 3 as delivered
from the factory. The newer insignia probably wouldn't have been applied
until after 1948...maybe not until 1952.

The FF900 would have been applied some time after the F designation came
into effect (1948) and it was removed before the newer insignia was installed
(according to the photo we have).

Hmmm, I wonder if the ghosted FF900 would look good on the model?

[umtutsut]

Dave,

NACA 102 looks great! My info shows the aircraft at Langley from January 18, 1945 through June 5, 1952. Those of us who want the red bar on the nat'l insignia can easily add it.

Any idea when it'll be available at your site or ecardmodels? I noticed the download button wasn't active.

Mucho thanx for doing this one!

Les (The Voice of Authority)